The Complexity of Toilet Paper

The Complexity of The Pivot: Strategy & Survival in the Start-Up World

• Complexity • Season 1 • Episode 16

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A single email from the U.S. Navy changed everything. That’s where our conversation with founder Ron Ben Zev begins—at the exact moment a failing product became a viable company because he stopped pitching what he had and started solving what someone needed. Ron walks us through the unvarnished reality of the pivot: not a buzzword, but a survival move that separates stubbornness from strategy.

We trace Ron’s route from early hustle in Europe to losing almost everything in the real estate crash, then rebuilding with World Housing Solutions by designing rapidly deployable, thermally efficient shelters. You’ll hear how he learned to outsource manufacturing to gain flexibility, why “when you carry a hammer, everything looks like a nail” will bankrupt your focus, and how teams—not ideas—earn investor trust when markets shift. His framework blends gut checks with living plans, turning fear into a compass rather than a cage.

The emotional side gets equal airtime. Ron explains why the most powerful sentence in a founder’s toolkit is “I need your help,” and how asking early unlocks guidance, pressure tests assumptions, and saves precious runway. We close by looking forward: applying automation, AI, and modular design to the U.S. affordable housing gap, and what it actually takes to make innovation stick beyond the headline. If you’ve ever wondered when to hold, when to shift, and how to do both without losing your mind or your mission, this story gives you a practical set of tools and the courage to use them.

If the episode resonates, share it with a friend who’s weighing a big change, subscribe for more thoughtful conversations on complexity, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway—we read every one.

Show Notes:

Most recently, Ron and World Housing Solutions was featured on Trade Talks, a show produced by NASDAQ that features conversations with top industry thought leaders on trends, news and education. Hosted by Jill Malandrino, Ron was a featured guest in August 2025 for the episode, “How Legislative Priorities, Regulatory Frameworks, and Strategies Are Driving U.S. Competitiveness.” (LINK:) https://www.nasdaq.com/videos/how-legislative-priorities-regulatory-frameworks-and-strategies-are-driving-us

Keep in touch with Ron:

Email: Ron@worldhousingsolution.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ronsbenzeev/

Twitter: https://x.com/Rbenzeev

Website: https://worldhousingsolution.com/


SPEAKER_00:

And I wish we could go back to a time when things were so complicated.

SPEAKER_04:

Welcome to the complexity of toilet paper, the podcast that dives into the everyday moments where we overthink, hesitate, or just gets down. Through honest conversations, unexpected insights, and a whole lot of humor, your hosts Phyllis Martin, Mark Pollock, and Al Emerick are here to help you roll with it and make your life a little less complicated. One conversation at a time. Right, dude. The beauty of this is its simplicity. Speaking of which, it's time to enter the stall. Put the lid down, or not, depending. Get comfortable and roll with it. Oh, worry not, dear friend. It's really quite simple. This is the complexity of toilet paper. We are about to embark on a journey. You, me, we, us, them, all of us together, one entity, enrapted, or should I say enraptured, uh, in in a uh a swirl of toilet paper like frivolity. What?

SPEAKER_02:

The hell was that?

SPEAKER_00:

Toilet paper frivolity.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't even know what most of those words meant. I'm gonna have to get at the source.

SPEAKER_04:

I just accessed uh Stephen King, Isaac Asimov, uh I might have gone biblical somewhere. I don't know. I just I find a bunch of words and they somehow like scrabble gamed get thrown together like craps in my head. Yeah. Yeah. Good morning, good afternoon, good not, good evening, how are you? Fantastical. How are you? I'm I'm skippy because today's show is like a redo, renew, refresh, something kind of cool. But we'll tell you about that in just a minute. But it's sort of like going back to school because we're gonna break the cardinal rule.

SPEAKER_00:

I know there's more in there that you know.

SPEAKER_04:

In fact, in fact, our listeners are gonna love this show so much they're gonna drool.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep.

SPEAKER_04:

Right? Yeah. And then afterwards, we're all gonna go take a long wet dip in the pool.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, have you seen on the Instagram?

SPEAKER_04:

I'm a fool.

SPEAKER_00:

Still staying with my story. Have you seen on the Instagram on the Instagram?

SPEAKER_04:

You realize you can't say the Instagram. We're going to. It's too late.

SPEAKER_00:

It's happened. It's happened. It's it's part of toilet paper frivolity.

SPEAKER_04:

There's the sun, the moon, but it's just Instagram. Just Facebook.

SPEAKER_00:

Have you seen on the Instagram, Grandma? Um the man who sets up like his music machine in the park. Yes. Or something, uh, whatever. Come do this. And there was just one over the weekend where like the song actually they put it out on YouTube. It was so good. Like the one guy came up and kind of out did your kind of thing that you just did. But then the next man that came up sang, and then other people came up and added to it. It was great. I can't think of the name of it.

SPEAKER_02:

So it was on the Instagram, the Facebook, the YouTube, all of them.

SPEAKER_00:

I only saw it just on the Instagram, but it is now on the YouTube.

SPEAKER_02:

Got it. Got it. Wow. If you're new to this video, I I don't I don't know. Nothing have to cancel. We'd be done if you weren't here. That's what I think it would be over.

SPEAKER_04:

Welcome to the technologically advanced Uber world of Phyllis Martin. Hey gang. We are here to unpack the show called The Complexity of Toilet Paper. We are we are past the double digits. We're like in the teens right now of our shows, which means we've done enough of these to figure out in the early days what um what kind of didn't work, right? So if you're just joining us maybe for the first time or you're new to the show, Mark Phyllis and I are all enamored with the idea that life is really too complicated. And most of the reason it's complicated is us. We make it more complicated than it needs to be. So we set out on a journey. It was a journey, a dark night. It was a journey to simplify our lives and to investigate this thing called complexity. And then we dumped into the worlds of complication and then we like discussed, well, what's the difference between complicated and complexity?

SPEAKER_03:

And I forgot about that.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, is it really simplicity? Well, is simplicity the goal? Anyway, as we complexify, thank you, Mark, for creating that word. Uh, we also started the show and just said, hey, let's just do it, let's just record. And we recorded a show, and one of our very first guests, no, the very first person we recorded was Ron Ben Ziv. Ron, who I'll tell you about in a minute. Uh, I mean, what was your first take of Ron, Mark?

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, you're gonna make me access that long ago. I mean, he he was uh uh uh from what I remember from that interview, I mean, just a fascinating gentleman who who had traveled all over the world and done amazing things. Like his story is fantastic. Um, so I when you said he was willing to come back and talk to us with our kind of our format that that we've been working on, I was super excited to talk to him again. So yeah, that was my impression is he's incredible. I'm very excited about the show.

SPEAKER_04:

Phil, what about you? What was your takeaway from the first time we interviewed Ron Ben Ziv?

SPEAKER_00:

I remember thinking like how multidimensional he was and um through his story, how um let me just can I start over again? Yes to multidimensional. I think the thing that stands out was how he um aligned his humility um and that helped drive him toward success. There was something there about the um impact of what others might have folded under, and really I think where there was some humility, right, on on his part about what had what he was experiencing and his tenacity and growth because of those events. Um, and and like Mark, I just found him to be um uh like tenacious, interesting, kind, um pragmatic, kind of like here it is, this is what it is, um, and very interesting. So I hope our listeners will agree that his story is quite fascinating and there's a lot to be learned um from him.

SPEAKER_02:

I I just also wanted to say that there's a lot of five dollar words being thrown out today and multi-syllable words. And and and so I appreciate if if maybe we could go a little slower so I could like look those as we go.

SPEAKER_04:

Um, because I'm just you know Mark, I I'm just sitting here shocked that Phyllis, uh, for all she has going on remembered all that detail and and all you could come up with is he was fascinating.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, that's I mean, you know, that kind of sucks. I'm trying to you know, I'm trying to live by our own philosophy and and keep it simple. Uh you did. You did.

SPEAKER_04:

Simple, simple like vanilla. Simple like vanilla ice cream with no sprinkles, no chocolate syrup.

SPEAKER_00:

At least vanilla bean.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, the funny part about what you both said is yes, he is all of those things fascinating. Yes, just a beautiful human being. Ron is also one of my dearest, dearest friends, confidants, and a beautiful human being. But for you listening, what we learned, and you're going, well, why didn't you air that show? Well, the show was kind of all over the place. And it was actually a learning tool for us to realize that while we're unpacking complexity, if we don't have a direction and a North Star, the show itself can become a little too complex. And so the gentleman you're gonna meet today is here to talk about the complexity of the pivot uh as a startup, as a founder. And we're gonna unpack that word pivot and let him explain it to you. But um, a pivot is what we literally are doing and did with the show, and ironically, as a result of Ron. The show was a little uh heavy, convoluted. It what didn't have the focus we thought we needed. So we were like, hey, let's come back and talk to Ron about something specific while still touching on his incredible life. Um he's lived or worked uh in West Africa, Asia, the Middle East, Central America, Europe. He's fluent in four languages. Um and Ron actually began his entrepreneurial journey back at the age of 13. And that matriculated, big word for you, Mark, that matriculated into uh a stealth career or uh a healthy career that was, oh, how about this? A graduate from Wharton School of Business. Uh that's pretty impressive. But when I met him, he was uh very heavily involved in the Orlando startup world. Um, and I'll let him tell you more about that when he comes in uh online and jumps into the stall with us. But he's served on a number of different boards, uh, was an entrepreneur in residence at Rollins College in Winter Park, Florida. And he's currently uh the founder and president of World Housing Solutions, a Florida company that um they manufacture rapidly deployable and reusable thermally efficient structures and shelters for the military, military NGOs, and first responder industries. And he also really uh recently had a pretty cool experience. He was on a television program, an interview program with NASDAQ. So we'll we'll ask him about that. But the theme is the complexity of the pivot. And um, you know, when we had Quinitha Frazier here, and I would reference, uh invite you to go back and listen to that episode. Quinitha brought her her perspective to the world of entrepreneurship, but Ron has his, and I think this concept of the pivot and having to make changes, so much of it is a is a direct reflection of our ability or lack thereof or the lack of tools and resources to be able to simplify the complex. And and so that's why we have him back in the stall. And I'm excited, I'm excited, I'm excited. Are you guys excited? Are you guys excited? We're so excited.

SPEAKER_00:

We might be more excited.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay, excited. That's my Harry Carey. Yeah. Well, seven beards. Oh, yeah, you never know what voice is coming out of these lips. All right, hey, this is the complexity of toilet paper, and it is time to swooosh into the stone. I'm overthinking. Ladies, gentlemen, world travelers, aliens from other districts of the planetary spherosphere. We have now landed on planet Earth with a gentleman who can only be described as otherworldly himself. He has lived on multiple continents. He is continent, though. We want to be very clear about that. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Ron Ben Zev and welcome into the stall, my brother.

SPEAKER_01:

It's awesome to be to be here again. It's a little sticky, but it will make it work.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes, um, we just we just uh explained to the uh wonderful fandom of complexity the the origins of Ron and the story. Um so you were the first, and before we even get into resetting your background, um do you even have any thoughts or ideas or feelings about having been the first and then brought back? I mean, uh because I know that first time you were like so nervous about I don't want to screw this up. And you're like, no, you were great. We we just changed things around.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh you know, it pivoting, right? Um it it it it's all about it's all about the pivot. And uh no, this is this is exciting to to to be a reinvited, rarer, it doesn't happen often, um, and and to be part of part of this uh this group again so that we could uh you know hope hopefully dive into uh some complexities together and uh who knows, solve some problems.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, that that would be the goal. Um I asked Phyllis and Mark to kind of flash back to what stood out and what did you remember? And um Mark, Mark's word, what what was your word, Mark?

SPEAKER_02:

Fantastic.

SPEAKER_04:

Fantastic. But Phyllis shattered all of that to pieces by uh illustrating not only the wonderment of your your experience, but also the kindness of your humanity. And I just said that you're a really cool guy. So there you go. That's that's the reset.

SPEAKER_00:

I think I get the gold medal on this.

SPEAKER_01:

I was about to say I like Phyllis the most.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, yeah. That's right.

SPEAKER_02:

Everybody does. It's it's quite all right.

SPEAKER_04:

Hey, we're we're used to it. We we we mark and I keep hoping for for hate mail because we just get bland mail. It's like, oh, you guys are okay. But Phyllis!

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's yeah. Oh, Phyllis's laugh, Phyllis's insight, and Phyllis is this, and it's it's just enough already.

unknown:

Enough already.

SPEAKER_04:

Ron Ben Ziv, you you truly are uh an amazing and fantastical individual in in addition to me lauding you for our friendship after all these years and and a brotherhood. You are truly, and I know this sounds cliche, one of the world's most interesting men uh people, period. Um so I'd I'd I've kind of given a background and I don't want to, you know, you know, re reiterate that you know verbatim. Uh give the world your introduction, if you will. What's the elevator pitch for Ron Benzeev as we sit here in 2025, bringing 2025 to an end soon?

SPEAKER_01:

Um you know, the the the 50,000-foot view uh as they say is born in Israel, grew up in West Africa, um ended up in in Europe on the border between France and Switzerland, and uh around the age of 11, stayed there until I came to the US for college, um learned to never say never because back then it was like, oh, I'll never live in the US and I'll never marry an American. I'm going back to Europe and uh, you know, 40 almost 40 years, 39 years of of marriage next uh next year. Um live living in the US, three kids, and um you know just uh enjoying life.

SPEAKER_04:

You um you have been many, many things um in in your life. You've you've traveled as you said, but uh in your bio you you reference having the entrepreneurial entrepreneurial roots actually started when you were 13. Well what was that introduction? What were those first uh touches with entrepreneurship?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh you know, it it's where where supply meets demand, right? The the very the very basic of you know someone has a problem and you can come up with a solution and you have a business. And and back in in those days, um we lived in uh in in France, and um Labor Day in France is celebrated by selling or or gifting um lily of the valley flowers, and um not far from where we lived in a small it sounds very uh ideal like, but it was a small town on the border with Geneva, and and there were woods not too far from where we lived, and kids being kids ride the bike and go do things or back in the day, right? No cell phones, and parents go just be back for dinner, and they didn't know where you were for an extended period of time. And and so one time during one of those things, I discovered in that little forest an area where Lily of the Valley grew wild. And the house my parents had bought had hundreds of clay pots that that were in the in the basement. And I went, hey, can I use those clay pots? And my parents went, sure, what are you doing? So I went and picked as many of those Lily of the Valleys as I could fit back and forth on my bicycle, brought them home, potted them, and then during Labor Day, which was the week after I, or short there after, I started selling Lily of the Valley, and you know as as they say, this is where my life started unraveling, but um, you know, or where the adventure began on the entrepreneurship side.

SPEAKER_04:

Fast forward, uh, and we're gonna fill in the gaps as we talk about the pivot. And I know Mark and Phyllis and I have a lot of questions to ask you about that, but um, you just recently had an opportunity to be on NASDAQ on a television program. And with within that show, um, you know, you were you were featured along with some some other top thought leaders and trends news, but the the topic was how legislative priorities, regulatory frameworks, and strategies are driving U.S. competitiveness. Um I'm pulling directly from the show. Yeah, I know. I was like, it sounded I mean, I'm yeah, let me should we should we do it monster truck style? I mean, you know how legislative priorities. Anyway, um so Ron, seriously though, World Housing Solutions, tell because that's that's a reference to that's that's your company. You've had to pivot many times. We're gonna unpack that, but but give us the the lowdown. What is World Housing Solutions and tell us what that feature was that you were talking about on the NASDAQ show?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh so going back to the roots, um right, um where where you have to to pivot right in life and and in business and in in in many instances. So in in my particular case, I was in real estate when the market crashed in in the uh in in the early 2000s, um uh which you know seems so far away and yet wasn't, and um and lost virtually everything uh when the market turned out because I was in real estate. I was a developer. So if you remember, um that went the way of the Doda bird very quickly. So there I was um you know sitting on multiple pieces of property being developed, so being sold to developers, all single family, and and I thought it was the smartest men in the room and very cautious. And you know, I'm like, I'm I'm gonna build this in a way so that when the music stops, if the music stopped, there's gonna be a chair under my butt and no chairs to be found, not even a toilet seat. So um, you know, in in at one point I was it was literally how do we make end meet ends meet and and how do you do you find, you know, how do you make money, right? Um and at that time I everybody was in was was looking for a job and or so it seemed, and uh nobody wanted in, you know, close to over the hill entrepreneur, you know, it's like interesting conversations, and then someone came to me and said, Hey, we know this company, they're making uh these forms of panels. Uh would you do consulting work for them? Like, yes, yes, they they've got money, I'll I'll I'll take it. And it was literally that. Uh, but the company was was failing miserably and and was on its deathbed, and you know, you could see little blip blips on the machine, but uh like, hey guys, you you've got nothing here. Um I I don't feel okay taking your money and and I'll be able to provide you value. Um now they're like, no, no, it it's alive, you know, we can make it happen. And I'm like, it's no, you can't. It there's nothing. Um, but around the table were were some some interesting individuals, and and and at that time, shortly before the earthquake in Haiti, that kind of sets the stage on the on the timeline, um, we're discussing on how can we salvage the brain trust. And then the earthquake in Haiti happened. And what we saw from afar was the devastation that it created and the hardship that it created for people to find reasonable shelter in in dire environments. And so we said, okay, how could we create a a better solution for refugees? And and we launched into doing what I tell everyone else not to do is go ahead and build it. And if you build it, they will come. Um, no, first validate, validate, make sure people care about your your solution, not just come up with a solution and try to find a problem to fit it. We invented a problem, a solution to a problem. And if you talk to the people being displaced by those natural disasters or man-made disasters, um they want a better solution. They don't want a 3,000-year-old technology, a stake on a cloth, right? Attempt. They want something that is protective, that is insulated, that you know, where they can feel safe. The problem is they can't afford it. So those that pay for those solutions are interested in the least expensive uh proposition that they can deliver quickly and then you know, let things happen. And in that world, um I quickly faced a doomsday scenario, right? We created a new company, we built a new product, we designed, engineered, manufactured it, and then try to sell it, and all we got again, time and again was hey, uh interesting, but attempt is good enough. Um and you know, we literally faced the demise, and at that point we got an email, and and it was from the U.S. Navy, uh, from the construction battalion of the U.S. Navy, which is similar to the Army Corps of Engineers, or so each branch has a group that that deals with construction and and and sites and and camps and things of that nature. And and the question was, hey, we're I'm so-and-so with the US CB, with the CBs with the Navy. I saw your website online. What you do is interesting. Can you make it bigger? Right. I'm an entrepreneur, the answer is usually yes, followed by, wait, what's the question again? Um we finally got to to a phone call from emails, got to a phone call, and in the phone call, I'm you know, the gentleman is telling me, by the way, you're not the only form of alternative construction uh company that that we're you know we're talking to. And and in my head, I'm like, duh, you're the US Navy. I bet you're talking to everyone. Um, and then the gentleman says to me, he goes, but you're the only company that responded to my email. And that's how we started doing work with the U.S. military, because they came to us and challenged us to design, engineer, and manufacture a shelter that they could use and deploy primarily in the hearts and minds program of the US military. World housing was born on a pivot. That's why you're here. And that led to where we are today, which is how do we take the knowledge that we've built within the modular world and incorporate that to solve a very thorny problem that we have in the US, which is the lack of affordable housing. And I'm not talking for you know people that are houseless or homeless or or or right, I'm talking about my kids, right, graduated from college, making a very decent living, but it's a struggle. Everybody's renting. And so we're now hitting a reset and saying, okay, can we take the lessons that we've learned, incorporate that with modern technology, AI, uh, automation, and and all those things, and then package that together. And that was the crux of my input within that that interview that you that you mentioned in the beginning with ASDAC.

SPEAKER_03:

Cool.

SPEAKER_00:

So, Ron, I'm super I have like a million questions. I'll try to get one question out and we'll see, we'll see where we go. I'm doing the best I can. Um we were on some sh some show that we did, and I can't remember which one. Uh maybe it was about risk, but I feel like inherently in the pivot, right? There's some level of risk that entrepreneurs, even businesses, even nonprofits, have to have some foresight to know when to take it, when to start thinking about the pivot, when to make the pivot. Can you talk a little bit about how as an entrepreneur you knew when it was time to do that, what goes into that decision-making process? Um, and maybe at some point, this is my perception, by the way, um, why so many businesses or organizations are reluctant to do it.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, I'll I'll I'll give you the best visual that that that I can. Um when when you're drowning, you're not bitching about the color of the life vest. Right? Um, in our particular case, we were shut down. Everybody said interesting concept attempt is good enough. Right? So we were a solution looking for a problem. When the military came to us, we pivoted in order to be able to address an existing need. It was an easy decision. It's either shut down the company or see how we can work with the US military. Do we have what it takes to be able to deliver the solution that they need? That was very easy. When it came to my previous flop, which was the real estate side, I you know, I I can I can say I was blindsided. No, I thought it was immune from from the from the risk because of the way I had built the business. Except that the entire world collapsed around me. I wasn't the only one collapsing, it was everyone collapsing. So there wasn't a there wasn't much I could do at that time. But when it came to hey, do we want to start continue to try to solve this, or do we want to go to where there's a paying customer who says, if you do this, we're interested and we can buy more. That was an easy, it was an easy decision. If you're run yes, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02:

But let me ask you this though, because you your pivot was based on uh a blessing, right? It was a it was a phone call from the blue that said, hey, you have something that might solve our problem. Uh but when you reference even the the real estate piece, uh where I'm I'm I'm getting at is if you are an entrepreneur or you're in a uh even a job you don't like and you're looking to pivot, um, how do you know when to hold on? And and how do you know uh your your pivot was it was easy. Someone called and said, Hey, can you modify? But but how will somebody know, yes, I should hold on to this or I should be looking for a pivot? I should be looking for a change. Is there is there a lesson from the real estate that you applied into into in the world housing and you just knew, hey, when this phone call came up, I I need to pivot because in the past I didn't pivot?

SPEAKER_01:

You know, maybe not if it was that way, it was not subconscious to to specify that. Um and I'll I'll I'll tell you that I think following your gut and and right, we've got analytics, got numbers, we've got right, all these things, but listening to your gut is really ultimately the ability to to discern and make a decision that's best for the family, right? And it's not just if you're if it's just you, it's one thing. If it's you and a family unit, your spouse or or significant other and children or not, right, affects all of those decisions. In in in my case, I'm fortunate that I have a a true life partner that you know she supports me, and without her, I world housing wouldn't exist. Uh right, she she's like, okay, do this. Um, I'm I'm going to go back to work and and and do what as well when we need in order to be able to combine forces for the sake of our family. So without Erica, there there would be no world housing. Uh, but the pivots that that you have to look at, life or or not, is does it fulfill you? Right? Or are you still interested in what you're doing? Does it make you happy? Or are you just doing this because you're stuck in in in a grind? I I had a a conversation not long ago with a family member who's like, Hey Ron, how are you? You know, how old are you? Aren't you I know you're younger than I am, but you know, what time is at at what age is is uh retirement in the US? Like uh I think officially 65, but he's retired. And he's like, So you do you think about retirement? I'm like, no. I'm still having fun at what I'm doing. I'm still enjoying this. And and I also have in in in in the back of my head the words of one of my professors in in business school who was on entrepreneurship. So I mean, think about back in the 80s. Yeah, I'm that old. Back in the 80s, uh, you know, being in a taking an entrepreneurship class was not the thing to do, especially in a in a you know, in a school known for finance. So I'm I'm an odd duck in in that world. And but but that professor was both a an investor. So he both taught and also did it, right? And and but one of the things that he said to us, which which stuck with me obviously, right, all these years later, he said, My father recently retired. I'm like, okay, he goes, and I hired him, I gave him two weeks' vacation, I said, now you're coming to work for me. And and uh he said, your brain, he's like, just change the word brain for a racing engine. And now imagine the car that just raced and won an ND500, and you take it out of the car, you put it on the shelf, and a year later you go and try to start it, it won't start because your brain's the same way. You stop using it, it will just decay and and and go away. He goes, same with your brain. So don't let it happen to you. And for me, as long as I'm interested, as long as things are still interesting to me, I retirement is is is an R word, right? It's it's it's a weird word. It's not something that that that I'm and I've sold that to Erica a long time ago. I'm like, yes, I'll I'll slow it down. Yes, we'll go and and we and we do that now, but I'm I'm I'm I'm about to launch in a completely brand new enterprise dealing with with modular housing for the United States. I mean, talk about you know at 64 launching something completely new that's gonna be a time suck for a while, but it's it's it's in your DNA.

SPEAKER_04:

And and that's you know, those are the stories um that you hear about, and and one of the stories that made you so endearing, Ron, uh, in Orlando and in Jacksonville, you know, when in Jacksonville, Florida, when I met Ron, he he was instrumental in something called OneSpark here when we I developed uh a cre a training academy for entrepreneurs. And Ron was was setting the ground work by not only sharing his tutelage and advice, having worked at Rollins College, One Million Cups, and been a part of that system, but also his own experience. And so, Ron, I have to ask you: you have seen entrepreneurship personally, you experience it, you're about to delve into another venture, you have taught it at Rollins College, um, you have been a part of it, and you and I talk exhaustively about what they don't teach entrepreneurs, the mental drain, the emotional drain. So I'd like to ask you some specific questions. First of all, why, in your opinion, well, first of all, I'm gonna go back. Define pivot. Now, now at this point in your career, we've talked about this, and I love that we didn't ask it up front, actually. But now you just talked about you're gonna be launching a new venture. You've had to pivot numerous times with world housing solutions. We've got an economy that's kind of like either roaring or or or or boring. What does pivot mean to Ron Benziv? Survival.

SPEAKER_01:

Um right. Uh it it it it really well when when all I did was manufacture our particular products. Uh I resembled the you know, the the famous adage that says, you know, if you walk with a hammer, everything looks like a nail. I was walking with a hammer. When people call me and say, hey, I know you make those composite cool things, but hey, um we're interested in this kind of solution. No, no, no, no, no. You want the the composite stuff, right? We're making it right here. This is what you want. Yeah, no, no, no. We want no, we don't do that. The moment I started outsourcing our manufacturing, it relieved me and released me from the burden of all I have to offer is this one solution. So that was an it was on an easy pivot, but it was a pivot um to allow us to both reduce our stress and overhead, internally changed right some of the parameters because now we're relying on on others to provide what what we do, um, but actually created better solutions for us, but it also gave us the ability to say, oh, you you you don't want a Chevy, you want a Ford. I I'll get you a Ford.

SPEAKER_02:

Um Ron, I I I w I I want to pause real quick. You you said that pivot, you define it as survival, but what I'm getting from your uh definition here, your your story here, is that a pivot is two things. One, it's it's a it's a mental thing and and it's an action. So it's it's both mental and physical. And the mental piece is being open to ideas, suggestions, and opportunities, and then the action is actually executing on that uh opportunity.

SPEAKER_01:

Is that fair? It's being able to see that your baby may not be the prettiest one, right? Is is a is accepting the fact that you may not have all the answers, and and and the landscape is littered with brilliant minds that have invented amazing things and and failed to implement them. Digital camera, anyone, right? You know, invented by Kodak and decided, hey, no, we no one's gonna want this and put it on the shelf. And someone else saw saw the opportunity and took advantage of it. So sometimes you're so entrenched in what you do that you can't see beyond the outside walls of of of your of what you do. Go ahead. Well, and go ahead, Phil.

SPEAKER_00:

I I think I was just gonna say it it's when I think of pivot too. When I think of pivot, I also think of having the foresight or willingness to see the opportunity that might be standing right or staring, staring you down. It might be right in front of you, but you have to have, I think, a willingness to do what you're what you're suggesting, which is say, huh, maybe, you know, my baby isn't the prettiest baby anymore, and we need to look in a different direction, even though um it it means risk, change. I I am like in the best possible way so taken by the word that you use, survival, but it is like in its most basic, in its most basic definition, to be able to pivot is to s is survival.

SPEAKER_02:

But I also wonder as we're defining pivot, you know, it it makes me r think about the book, Who Moved My Cheese, right? I don't know if it has to be always, and Ron, I'd love your opinion on this, always at the point of do or die. Uh, you know, sometimes you can read the tea leaves and say, hey, you know, in six months, a year from now, two years from now, this is the next iteration. It doesn't actually have to even be a major pivot, but it it could be uh a little bit of a a change in direction. In your experience, I mean, help us understand that piece of it as well.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, it's the military statement, right? If you know fail to plan, you plan to fail. Um and and but yet when you're planning, it is a live, living, breathing document, right? You you have to be able to have flexibility in in what you're looking ahead for, you know, towards, and in order to be able to say, okay, am I on the right path? Reevaluate time and again. Is this the right decision? Is this the right direction? Um, you know, even as we're contemplating now, looking and you know, moving into the into the world of of you know modular housing, we're not the first, Lord knows, right? It it's been done, it's been done by others well and and not so well. Lots of conversations are going over that. Heck, you could buy a modular house from Sears off their catalog back in the 30s and 40s, and a house in pieces would show up in front of your lot and you could assemble it, right? So nothing new under the sun. It's just do we have the right approach, the right team, the right solution, and and does anyone care about it, right? That's and that's ultimately going back to what you said, Phyllis, is it it's a decision that that is scary, but and and you know, it's something that you have to look at as you're as you're planning. Hopefully we're going to do X and Y and Z by 2000, you know, in 26 and 27, that's the goal. And and and then and then being able to execute on that and pivot if you needed to, because something went awry. I mean, if you know, going back to to the to the boom and crash of of real estate, right? Some people saw the tea leaves. I didn't. Um, I I thought I was I was well covered and well protected um in that in that arena and you know God was like holding my beer.

SPEAKER_04:

Ron, uh before we step into the roll-up for some deep thinking, uh like like we're not doing deep thinking here. I I gotta I want to all of this uh I'm looking at it from what I learned, not only from my own experiences, of course, as an entrepreneur, but what I learned so uh deeply from you and then just the experiences from working with over 300 creators during OneSpark. Um and I think Mark, this speaks to your question as well. While Ron was addressing what Pivot meant for him as it relates to the survival of his business, I know Ron, you and I have talked. Pivot is part of being a startup. Like there's a it's funny, in the investor world, as it, you know, equity investment into startups, uh, there are markets that are mature investor markets, meaning strong equity markets, your Chicago's, your, your, your, your New York's, and you know, your Silicon Valleys. And then there's newer markets. I won't I won't name any because I don't want to piss off, but there's markets, and and oftentimes they're there are markets where you've got really business owners that have extra capital and they want to invest in something, versus truly a serious experienced investor in the startup world. And every investor I've ever talked to in the startup world that's that's that's a veteran of it, the word pivot is part of the vernacular 24-7 because they're expecting it and they're trying to assess from the in company that they're investing in, the people they're investing in, their ability to actually manage the pivot. And so, Ron, back to my other question before colleges teach entrepreneurship, business schools teach business, but there's something missing because there's still these bright-eyed, bushy-tailed dreamers. God bless them, you should be. But the pivot is left out of the equation. Thoughts.

SPEAKER_01:

It's not always left out, right? It's it's hot and discussed because you have business cases on this company was doing this, and then they went out of business because they missed all these things, right? So it may not be deliberately stated as the pivot, although now it's it is part of the vernacular. And going back to your statement, investors invest in teams often more so than they do in the technology. Because they, as you say it, they know you're gonna hit a wall or you're gonna hit walls, multiple multiple problems. And are you flexible enough to pivot? Are you flexible enough to say, okay, this is not working out? Uh we need to find another path to solve this problem. And in order to do this, we need to stop thinking this way, we need to start thinking this way. So so those are all integral part of the future's success. And it can mean that what you started off with doing heading in one particular direction, you're forced to to uh to go the other way, and that's when you're accepting failure, right? You're accepting that you're failed in your original attempt and now you have to pivot in order to survive, right? Uh it it it right, it it's all it all wraps together uh in in a very neat role, pun intended, um, in order to be able to get us to being to be successful. Now, as you go through that, the more outside pressure you have, the harder those decisions become, because you have investors that that are hoping to get money back on on their investment, right? So do you you want to please them? So you know if I pivot, what happens? If I, you know, if if if I just shut it down because there's nothing else I can do, I've tried everything within my power, um, you know, right, or you you bring in other people within that ecosystem. Uh, are you surrounded with with the right people that will challenge you and will force you to look at it differently along the way? Those are all the the things that that that people struggle and and have a hard time with when they when they launch any kind of company. Um because right, people always say, well, you know, hire hire slow, fire fast. Right. It it there's still a human factor to this, and and do you have the right people around you that will help you make it a success.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, and we hear over and over again, Mark, uh I mean, um, Ron, that fear sits at the at the center center of the table always when we talk to folks about change and complexity. Uh it it be could we overthink because we want to get it right. We will overthink because we don't want to get be wrong. We we make things more complex uh than they have to be, uh, oftentimes as a result of that, and it and it's fear is that driver. And there's no greater fear uh for an entrepreneur than I'm gonna run out of money, my idea is not gonna be accepted. And the old adage, fear is not an option, but yet you're saying, well, fear is just part of, I mean, sorry, fear is not an option, failure is not an option, rather. Failure is part of the startup, and pivot is part of failure, right?

SPEAKER_01:

100%. The the question is can you pivot early enough that you still have cash, they still have a runway, right? You still have people around you that believe in your vision, and and your investors are still on board, or do you need other people to to invest? It's curiosity meets opportunity, meets meets market demand, and and all of that boils down to one thing execution.

SPEAKER_04:

Another reason Ron Benzive is still my number one choice to play Trivial Pursuit. I don't even know if that's still a game. So uh speaking of pivots, Ron, um, we are going to make our own pivot right now, and we're gonna step into. I don't even remember if this was around when you did the very first show with us. I don't think it was, but it's something we like to call the roll up. And I know you're a fan of the show, so I'm sure you've been trying to think in deep thoughts like anticipatory, uh planning strategically. What are Phyllis and Mark and Al gonna throw at me in the stall? Uh and and so you have no idea, and we have no idea, because we don't plan. So I'm gonna start off because I've been juicy ready for this. I don't even know what juicy ready is.

SPEAKER_00:

Um Why would you ever say that on this show? Take it back, put it in that.

SPEAKER_04:

In the stall. In the street.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Why?

SPEAKER_04:

Ideal in volume, ideal in quantity, not quality. It's like my jokes. It's like I just throw it out there and shit flows out. All right, here we go. Ron Benzi. I know, I did that one on purpose. Ron Benzive. Um, you have, and I'm gonna make sure I'm gonna go back to my notes, make sure I don't miss it. You have lived or worked in West Africa, Asia, Middle East, Central America, Europe, fluent in four languages. I know that you've traveled all over the place. What is the one country? Uh if it's the United States, then other than the United States, but what is the one country where if you had to go to the bathroom, this is the country you'd want to go into the bathroom? And is there a place that stands out as like the best bathroom ever?

SPEAKER_01:

No, but I can tell you where I would want to go.

SPEAKER_04:

Nah, you gotta, you gotta, you, you, that's an easy one. All right. Where where like where is your best public bathroom or bathroom experience in in all your world travels?

SPEAKER_01:

Probably Switzerland, right? They're notorious for being clean and efficient. Um, and and that's if you if you gotta go, that's a place to go.

SPEAKER_04:

It's a long trip, but hey, there you have it from Ron Ben Ziv. If you can hold it that long, it's so worth it.

SPEAKER_01:

And and and you can yodel and no one will yell at you.

SPEAKER_04:

That's right. In fact, it's it's it's a requirement. That's it. You finish, you flush, and you yodel, you know, FFY. So, um, all right, who's up next? Mark, Phil?

SPEAKER_02:

Uh I'll go. You know, uh, you are a thinker, a doer, uh, you've come up with businesses, we've talked about pivoting. What was the last deep thought you had in the store?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it it it it it actually happened not long ago, as in today, and it was I I hope I will not disappoint Phyllis.

SPEAKER_00:

There's a chance.

SPEAKER_04:

Wow.

SPEAKER_00:

There's always a chance.

SPEAKER_04:

I don't know. I don't know what I'm I don't know what I'm moved by more. Um, pardon the pun. I don't know if I'm moved by the fact that you have such caring thoughts to worry that Phyllis would would approve of you or that you were thinking of Phyllis in the toilet. I know Well, we gotta hear what this is. All right, so what what's what's your deep thought?

SPEAKER_01:

Will I disappoint you guys? I mean and oh, that's the deep thought.

SPEAKER_00:

That could never happen.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, no.

SPEAKER_00:

No, that could you just no, there's no way that could have ever happened.

SPEAKER_02:

No.

SPEAKER_00:

Ever, ever, ever.

SPEAKER_02:

You can just wipe that thought away.

SPEAKER_00:

You can wipe it away. No dangle barriers. So flush it. I feel like my question is like in the pocket of Mark's question, have you decided to make a pivot while you've been in the stall?

SPEAKER_01:

It it's actually I I discovered something that allowed us to actually patent a um one of the the things that we're doing out of World of Housing. We we pivoted um and I discovered it while it was in the bathroom reading an article and started to dive deeper into the into the information. And then when I came out and and I called the team and I said, hey, um, I think we could use this to do what we're trying to solve. And it kind of looked at me like, what? Um and then we did more analysis, more information, more and more and more, and then it turned out that I was right. Um, doesn't happen all the time, but in this case I was right, and we were able to incorporate uh someone else's uh engineering and idea into what we were doing, and then actually get a patent for it. So that was kind of cool.

SPEAKER_00:

See, I knew I knew something had gone on in the stall that would lend itself to a pivot or something big.

SPEAKER_04:

I've got thank you. I've got one last one, and then I'm gonna leave it over to Mark to lead into um our our our closing section. What do you think our listeners, our podcasting complexifiers, would most need to know when it comes to bathrooms of the future?

SPEAKER_01:

Go to Japan, because they are way ahead of us in so many ways when it comes to complexity of toilets, not toilet paper, but uh it's absolutely insane uh how the technology is is evolving to the point that AI is now going to be embedded so it can do an analysis of your finished product um and potentially discover health issues before you even know about it.

SPEAKER_02:

What? I mean, I was I was thinking, how could you how could you make bathrooms more complex and you just did it? So wow, that's incredible. Well, I just think that just tells me we're gonna have to do a show in Japan. So we'll need a sponsor ASAP on that one. We gotta go to Sweden or Switzerland, we gotta go to Switzerland for the best experience, and we gotta go to Japan in Japan to it's a medical write-off. I mean, if I'm healthy or not.

SPEAKER_01:

Japan may actually have the combination of, right? Because they have such amazingly modern and and and high-tech, you know, toilets, they may also have the best, you know, public bathrooms as well.

SPEAKER_04:

And and if you're listening to the show and you happen to have traveled to Switzerland or Japan, please message us on on Facebook or do a post, let us know, uh, comment on the show and uh and tag Ron. We're gonna give all of his socials at the end. Um Marky Mark?

SPEAKER_02:

You know, Ron, uh as we uh come to closing the stall door and and and flushing uh this episode, uh I I I I I reflect back on our moments here and talking about pivoting, talking about understanding entrepreneurship, uh what is and what is not taught in school, what you learn through just experience, through reading the tea leaves, through ex uh you know, through failing and winning. And what we like to do here on the complexity of toilet paper is is leave our audience with something that is useful for their life and something that they might actually be able to apply. Now, not all of our listeners are entrepreneurs, they you know work in regular corporations and jobs and you know, all some own businesses, but we all all have a need to pivot in life. And so our hope for our audience is to look to you to say, do you have a handful of tips that either you've taught in class or you've just learned through life that someone's not going to just be able to look up online? Something that that they could apply today into their real life around the pivot.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh well, let me share with you some of the most powerful words that that I know of in everything that you do in life is go up to someone you trust and say, I need your help. It doesn't matter what the help is for, but if you're open to receive to ask for the help, right? If you're wise enough to understand that you can't do everything by yourself, and you're surrounded by people that can provide the assistance that are smarter than you, that are have more experience than you or that you trust, asking for help is the most powerful way to help you through life because you just can't do it alone.

SPEAKER_04:

Ron, beautiful, absolutely beautiful. Um let's give me a practical example of that too, as it relates. So many, so many entrepreneurs are afraid to ask for help for the reasons that you've illustrated already. Uh, as I as I referenced one of our former guests on the show, she talked about people will wait until the last minute and everything's about to blow up when if they had asked for help earlier, they could have saved the day and so on and so forth. So um what does that look like for an entrepreneur that's either seasoned or that's just starting out? Tips on how to ask for help.

SPEAKER_01:

It's be prepared to be vulnerable. Um and and and and have the ability to realize again, you're you're you're not a superhero, you can't do it all by yourself. Um right, I was fortunate enough that in in in in in one of the the crux of what was going on at World Housing, and and I had a major issue, I happened to make a phone call to my friend Al. And and Al said, What are you doing Friday? We're having lunch. Friday. You, me, I'll I'll meet you halfway. Let's go. And and it was transformational. It was you know two grown man crying in a restaurant and sharing stories and and being vulnerable and being open and honest and walking away feeling so much lighter. Um and and I can't emphasize that enough. And if you don't have that in your life, if you don't have the right people that you can lean on, go find them. You have the wrong people around you.

SPEAKER_04:

That is a mic drop. And that is why we bring amazing people into the stall, and that is why we call this the complexity of toilet paper. Wow. Ron Benzive, thank you, my friend. That is there's just no better way to close this show. Um Ron, if people want to get a hold of you, LinkedIn the best way?

SPEAKER_01:

LinkedIn, absolutely the best way. Yep.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay, great. So it's Ron Benziv on LinkedIn. We're gonna also um put his uh his handle into the show notes. Uh tell us about uh same thing, your website, so that people can find you.

SPEAKER_01:

So the website is World Housing Solution Singular. We only have one solution.com. And it's in flux, so I apologize if if you're running into some issues, but you will see now that we are we have a a portion of the site that's also dedicated to to the um you know to the housing side. Uh so I encourage you look at it, give us your opinion, tell us what you think, and and engage.

SPEAKER_04:

And we're also gonna put a link in there to the show that I referenced earlier that Ron was on called Trade Talks, produced by NASDAQ. Uh it was the August 2025 episode, and uh we'll we'll put that link in there as well.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm gonna just echo uh what Alan Mark has said. It's always a gift to be with you and to hear your story, and and um there's a lot of takeaways for me, so thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you for the opportunity.

SPEAKER_04:

All right, and you know what we do at the end of the show? We do that thing. This is the complexity of toilet paper. Or it could be this is the complexity of toilet paper. You see what I did there? I made it complex. You guys didn't pick up on that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, we got you.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay, all right. We're out. Bye bye. The complexity of toilet paper.

SPEAKER_00:

Bye bye.

SPEAKER_01:

Bye. Did you say toilet paper?

SPEAKER_04:

This is the complexity of toilet paper.

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Al Emerick

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Mark Pollack

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Phyllis Martin

Host