The Complexity of Toilet Paper

The Farce And Farts Of Festive Perfection

• Complexity • Season 1 • Episode 17

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Holiday magic gets real when we stop pretending it’s perfect. We open the stall door on festive stress—expectations, retail pressure, and those glossy social scenes—and swap them for quieter, kinder choices that actually feel good. With Phyllis, Mark, and Al at the mic, you’ll hear sharp insights, laugh-out-loud stories (including a grandmother with a right hook and an infamous acorn squash), and a blueprint for traditions that hold up when life doesn’t.

We break down why the season boils over: performance pressure, commercial scripts, and the myth that one dinner heals old family rifts. Then we rebuild from the inside out. Think recycled gifts with stories attached. Donations in someone’s honor. A low-key meal that’s simply everyone’s favorite food on one table. Fewer obligations, more presence. And yes, a frank takedown of New Year’s resolutions in favor of small, durable habits you can start today.

At the heart is gratitude—internal for resilience and growth, external for the people who stood beside us. We keep the humor close, because pressure pops faster when you laugh. If you’re tired of chasing picture-perfect holidays and ready for connection that fits your real life, this conversation meets you where you are and leaves you lighter.

Hit play, share it with someone who needs a simpler season, and tell us the tradition you’re keeping or ditching this year. If this resonated, subscribe, leave a review, and help more listeners find a calmer, happier holiday.

SPEAKER_05:

Sometimes I wish we could go back to a time when things weren't so complicated.

SPEAKER_02:

Welcome to the complexity of toilet paper, the podcast that dives into the everyday moments where we overthink, hesitate, or just get stubborn. Through honest conversations, unexpected insights, and a whole lot of humor, your hosts Phyllis Martin, Mark Pollock, and Al Emmerich are here to help you roll with it and make your life a little less complicated. One conversation at a time. Right, dude. The beauty of this is its simplicity. Speaking of which, it's time to enter the stall. Put the lid down, or not, depending. Get comfortable and roll with it. Oh, worry not, dear friend. It's really quite simple. This is the complexity of toilet paper. Once upon a time in a land far, far away. High above the treetops, through the sky, and into the Arctic Circle, out through the desert, through Sherwood Forest and many of the enchanted lands, there was a place. A place where Santa and the elves all sat around and took turns going potty. That's right. The complexity of toilet paper has arrived at the North Pole just in time for the holidays. Welcome to the holiday version of the complexity of toilet paper.

SPEAKER_00:

And that's our show, ladies and gentlemen.

SPEAKER_02:

Are you feeling a little pooped out at the holidays? Do you give a shit about the holidays? Are you wiped out after the holidays? Would you just like to flush the holidays away? Or do you wish that it was just this eternal bowl that swirled around and always remained present in your life? See? That's so punny. It was so punny. So punny. Um hi and welcome to the complexity of toilet paper, the holiday, new year, seasonal Kwanzaa, Christmas, Hanukkah, anything in between version. Um my name is Al Emmerich. I'm Mark Pollack.

SPEAKER_05:

And I am Phyllis Martin.

SPEAKER_02:

And I'm just gonna be very direct, folks. Um we have a major dilemma that arrived in our um central nervous system of this show. And as a listener, as a fan, as a first time, last time, forever time participant in the complexity of toilet paper, you need to realize that our mission is to unpack the complexity in life so that we can just have a better life, a simpler life, one conversation at a time. And never in the history of mankind has there been more overthinking amid wars, pestilence, than the holidays. It's true. I mean, they we've studied it. We we we put a lot of research into it. I mean, and and so and so we got to thinking, and then Phyllis got to stinking, um, and she was like, We should do a show on this.

SPEAKER_01:

And is that how I sound?

SPEAKER_02:

Uh no, not at all. If you were in the Grinch's toll Christmas, maybe either way, we have decided to unpack something that is really important, and we're joking about it, but it's true. Stress follows the holidays, and we just don't know why the hell why. So, Phyllis, walk us through your incredible thoughts about this show and the holidays.

SPEAKER_05:

So when we were thinking about this show, we were thinking about like the conventional what tips can we offer and what kind of a show can we do to make the holidays less complex? And I about had a nervous breakdown because I thought, do we really like really, like how many more shows do we need to talk about over the anything having to do with the holidays? Like, seriously, how many more tips do we need about relaxing and don't overspend and don't overeat, or maybe overeat because you can lose it after the first of the year, and remember to drink water and take your naps and remember this, that, and the other. It has been so done. And I am saying it much more calmly than I said it uh to my uh co-hosts here uh on the show when we first started talking about it. And then Al used she lost her shit.

SPEAKER_02:

She lost her shit, folks. She genuinely lost her shit.

SPEAKER_05:

I did. I was beside myself over the thought of having to do a show like that. And then um Al was like, right, that's what I'm saying. Like we should say that and then do the show about that, about the the farce that is the holidays. And Al kept using the word farce.

SPEAKER_02:

I used farce. I want to let you know that in a testament to decorum, verbally and emotionally and grade level-wise, I said decorum. I said, I'm sorry, I said farce. Okay, now go.

SPEAKER_05:

You said farce, and Mark and I were like, farce. What if we did the farts of the holidays? What if we talked about the farts of the holidays? And Al was like, no, the farce of the holidays. We're like, no, the farts of the holidays, because it's really true. It's really, really true. Plus, let's just start with farts are funny. Like you can't say I can't say far. I can't even have this show without like falling down a thousand times. But we were thinking like we could talk about this in like so many ways about things like, you know, the stench of the holidays, or the stink of having to get together with your families, or the silent but deadly, all of the things in some ways that holidays represent. And now we are proud to share with you. You can say farts if you want to, you can say farce if you want to, but I think it's the farts of the holiday season.

SPEAKER_02:

Ladies and gentlemen, I give this disclaimer that we are three grown-ass adults recording this in all sincerity and seriousness. Uh, this is for your listening pleasure. And I hope at this point we haven't lost all of our downloads, all of our letters.

SPEAKER_00:

Can can, you know, I I do have to just pause this for a second and say, I realize that this is an audio podcast. Yeah, but could we just pay a little respect to my outfit today? You know, I came to this holiday farting conversation in an absolutely hideous sweater that looks like a Christmas tree with a tie on it.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, so stand up partially. I'll sc I'll screenshot this puppy right now. Okay, this is yeah, no, you're good. No, arch, no, arch up a little higher.

SPEAKER_05:

I mean, it looks like it itches.

SPEAKER_02:

There you go. All right, oh God. You know what it looks like? It looks like it's a painted on tattoo to your body.

SPEAKER_05:

It looks like it's wrapping paper.

SPEAKER_00:

Maybe that's how committed I am to this, right? So if we're gonna talk about the farts of the holidays, it it also has to do with someone wearing ugly sweater. If there's one more ugly sweater contest at a work, yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

I'm not doing that. We all know I'm not doing that.

SPEAKER_02:

Now, now let's let's be uh joking aside, which is gonna be impossible, but no, we want to be serious. Not the three of us are not bah humbuggers, okay? We're we are not like, oh, poo-poo the holidays, pardon the pun. Um, but but seriously, you know as well as I do, dear friend of the the stall with us, that there is far too much overthinking, there's far too much stress, too many people arrive at the end of the holiday going, I need a holiday from the holiday. And we were like, well, let's just bring the truth to the holidays, and that is that it does kind of stink. And what actually stinks, okay. First of all, Phil, this idea of you talked about it, the perfect holiday, right?

SPEAKER_05:

Yes, because uh we like right. So there's every like home and garden TV show, there's every perfect pie and cookie, perfect pie crest rolled out, perfectly decorated tree, fire in the fire, like all of these expectations, the perfect latka, the perfect dreidel roll if you're in my family, the perfect every perfect eight presents, lighting the menorah on time, the whole thing. And I actually have come to find, and I hope we're gonna talk about this, that oh I was gonna make a pun, but I'm not. But that is just really what I'm saying. Don't tease us. I was gonna say it's just a wad of shit. Like it just doesn't exist because I think what actually makes the holidays the holidays are the ridiculous things that happen when families come together and expect um, you know, um, what is that show? The Andy Griffith show. And you get something completely different. Like I know in my own family we spend more time laughing about even like the fights that have happened or somebody getting their feelings hurt. On the back side, I mean, sometimes it's just funny. But in the moment it feels like, no, if it's not this perfect every little thing, then we have failed as human beings. And the expectations going in are just so unrealistic.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, I I have to admit though, I knew at a relatively young age that holidays weren't going to be perfect when my grandmother punched my cousin on Christmas. So knocked him out.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Like legitimately, or like as in the no hyperbole, I'm not kidding. I'm standing next to my brother Steve. My grandmother comes out of the kitchen. I don't know if are we ready for the story? Go ahead.

SPEAKER_04:

I think I think it's too late to stop.

SPEAKER_00:

I I've already opened the bag here. So unrolled the paper. So in my family, you can have like if you want something, you ask for it, and then you, you know, it you'd likely get it, right? So at my grandmother's house, um, and she used to get Italian cookies sent to her from New York. Some family members from New York used to send her, yeah, it was great. And being an Italian family, that was really important, the cookies and the things like that that she she didn't want to necessarily make anymore. Anyway my cousin decides to go into um into the kitchen and not ask for permission. Now he's a grown ass man, right? Uh huh. He's a grown ass man. He's like almost 30 at this point. Um and he comes out of the kitchen, and my grandmother looks at him and goes, What are you eating? And he's like, Well, I got a cookie. She's like, That's for later. He's like, Oh, I'm sorry. She said, Well, you didn't ask, and they went back and forth and back and forth. And and finally, my grandmother, who was like four foot ten, reared back and punched him in the face, and he fell to the ground. And I remember looking at my brother Steve, and Steve looking at me and going, Well, that's a merry frickin' Christmas. Oh my god. Yeah. So there's no Hallmark. That's not any Hallmark movie I've been forced to watch. That's that adds a new meaning to the punch bowl.

SPEAKER_05:

It does. Okay, so the story that comes to mind for me is um I have two stories, but I'll stay with one because I'm sure there'll be time in like another section for me to tell my second story.

SPEAKER_02:

Of course. So it's your show, Phyllis. It's always your show. We're just living in it. That's right. Yeah, it's your show. It's your idea, your show, your shit. Show at the hold on here.

SPEAKER_05:

I'm glad we're all in agreement.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, welcome to the Phyllis show. We wanted to talk about world peace and hunger over the holidays, but no, I want to talk about farting. Yeah, there we go.

SPEAKER_05:

Well, everybody thinks.

SPEAKER_00:

Who knew such a classy woman would would Can I tell the story now, please?

SPEAKER_05:

Okay, so everybody knows that I am Jewish and my husband is not. What? What? Um, what? Um, so Tim is not Jewish, therefore his family is not Jewish. And so we were at Christmas dinner at my in-laws' house one year, and my brother-in-law and sister-in-law were there, and Tim's grandmother, fondly known as Gramono, was there. And um my in-laws, you know, set a very formal Christmas dinner table. It's not funny. A very formal Christmas dinner table. And um, my brother-in-law is a little bit of a prankster, and we all know how easily I am um open to that. So on the like plate, everybody had this um acorn squash that was like cut in half and stuffed with stuff. And when Rob finished eating his, he held it up to his face like he had a wart or like an overly sized mole. Well, Grammono had like something done to her face recently, and she insisted, like, somehow I got blamed for this. This is the point of the story. She insisted that I made Rob do that and that I was laughing at her. Like somehow this got turned into I was laughing at her. And Rob just let it sit out there. He just let that sit in there. So the family is like looking at me like I created this scenario. Now, of course, I was hysterical. I'm like, I was over the top, like laughing at the whole thing. And then, you know, I had to sit quietly for the rest of the time.

SPEAKER_02:

You were in timeout. You were in thanks, you were in holiday timeout.

SPEAKER_05:

I was I was definitely an in-law at that moment, for sure.

SPEAKER_00:

You were an outlaw at that moment. They're like, we're really hoping this marriage doesn't work.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, I was definitely an outlaw. But to this day, like we always laugh about like the half of the acorn squash pressed up against his face, and my father-in-law looking in horror at me, and Tim going, Please don't, and I'm going, too late, and then Grammono yelling.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I I never had assaults or violence or uh Acorn squash on your face. Or acorn squash in your face. Um our big uh my big memory of the complexity of the holidays was the duality of my life. So my as we know, um my my if if you didn't listen to our previous shows, all of us lost our parents early on in life. Um I lost my dad when I was five. But we continued to celebrate Christmas with my mom and my sister, but my family was Jewish or Jewish, even though I was bar Metzfit. And so we would also do Hanukkah. So I always, for many years, had Hanukkah and Christmas. And the complexity came from the fact that all my friends would ask me these questions and I felt so defensive about it. And I don't even remember what I would make up, but I would make up all these stories about why we celebrate both so it didn't look bad because I would get Hanukkah presents and I would get Christmas presents. Um, we had a Christmas tree and we had a Hanukkah bush. My mom would stress out about whether or not there was an equitable balance of presents between Christmas and Hanukkah. None of us gave a crap about it because we were still getting presents. But then it got worse because then my family, which at that point everybody was together in St. Augustine and the number was quite large. We literally had Hanukkah events, family events that would last hours as all the grandkids and kids and nieces and nephews opened their gifts. Um, but then they would get in on it because they were like, Well, should we give them also Christmas presents, or do we dock them less Hanukkah presents? I mean, seriously. Do we dock them? I mean, that was the conversation.

SPEAKER_05:

That was the more docking your presents.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's some of the language that was used. It's like, well, should we dock them some presents? My cousin, I would remember, he would tell me. He's like, he's like, he's like, yeah, we docked you a few presents because we knew you already got some stuff for uh for for Christmas.

SPEAKER_00:

Wait a minute.

SPEAKER_02:

And I'm like, as a kid, you're like, I don't know, man. I don't care. I just want stuff. I just want stuff. Um, okay, yes, we've had some stories. I could we could all tell ad nauseum of stories, but but let's talk about this thing. And I'm real curious to know what your experience is have been or what what you think is the answer, all right? Why do you believe there is so much pressure around the holidays? We you talked about the you know, the performance, the pictures, the stress. Um, I have a sense of why I think it's been, and it's not unlike a lot of other things in life. But Phil, why are the holidays so stressful for people? And and we'll wait to get to the unstressed, but but why do you think they're so stressful?

SPEAKER_05:

I think two things. I think the holidays have become so much about um like the retail of it all, like the giving of gifts and the purchasing of things, the presence. Let's just talk about the presents. And um, so I think there's that. And then I often say whether it's the holidays or any other event where families are coming together, if there are rifts in families for whatever reasons, I I think sometimes people come to these gatherings as if it is the gathering that's going to change the challenge in the family. And I would say it's the worst possible time to even think about that, because that's not what the coming together was intended for. And one coming together can't undo um whatever hurt or years of hurt or years of um um undone um issues have occurred in a family. And so there's an innate kind of built-in um unrealistic and unreasonable, quite honestly, expectation that something is going to be different or get worked out. And the reality, I think, for most people is that it's just not going to. And so that band-aid comes ripping off that scab pretty quickly, and it is just raw and it hurts, and it's out there and it's everywhere. Um and I don't have much more to say about it. I think those two things for me combined, and from my own experience, everybody has their own experience, but from my experience, um, I think in part that's what adds, um, that's what adds to the stress.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, uh I I definitely want to confirm the retail piece. Uh you know, m there's apps now, um and my daughter uses it, and and while it's while it makes things easy, p you know, because I don't know what to get a 17 year old, um it it also i it is such a weird dynamic. There's an app, she goes online, she picks the things that she wants for Christmas. Sends me this list through the app, and then I can it finds the the places to go buy such thing. And and so it really is just about here's my list and here's how you buy it. And you know, when I was a kid for Christmas, you know, I didn't get gifts during the year. I didn't get stuff during the year. My birthday and Christmas were really the only times I got things. And now, you know, I I can just speak for myself. You know, if my kids need a pair of pants, they get a pair of pants. They need shoes, whatever, whatever they need, uh likely they're gonna get it throughout the year. I'm sure a lot of people can relate. Um not necessarily expensive things, just you know, everyday things. I mean, I used to get socks for Christmas. Now, you know, they're getting socks throughout the year, right?

SPEAKER_02:

And and so is that why you bought is that why you bought that beautiful blouse you're wearing? I mean, shirt you're wearing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I love this blouse. And and so, and so now there's apps for commercial, you know, and and then I think for me, the other piece that you you didn't say, Phyllis, is but you kind of said it was expectations. So we have social media now, uh, we have the Hallmark movies, we have all of these things about and you said at the start of the show, what is the perfect holidays, right? Families getting along, you meet a long-lost friend, you you know, all of these picture perfect things. And and the reality is no part of life is like that. And so you expect um, you expect it to be different. And then the the third thing for me that I think is kind of frustrating is we've taken any of the religious pieces out of the holidays that they were actually meant to be, and and it really is just coming down to commercialism. So um yeah, it's it's not family time necessarily for for Thanksgiving, but it's it's having a show and bringing the best, the best dishes for Christmas, you know, it's it's it's not a it's not about the birth of Christ for for Hanukkah, it's it's not you know what it's intended to be. So it's just it's just very different, I believe. Um, and I think that also causes some stress.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think what you guys just highlighted is your SBD, Phyllis. You're silent but deadly. It's yeah. Um and and I liken it to, so I'm I'm I'm listening to an audio book right now, The Psychology of Money. It's a brilliant, brilliant book, by the way. If you ever wanted to understand the real, real story behind wealth, money, tragedy, and our mindset as human beings, it's an exceptional book to read, the psychology of money. It's been around for quite some time. Um, why do I bring that up? Well, in this book, uh they he the author talks about how so many people equate wealth to these big, big wins when in actuality it's the small, sustainable, uh, consistent growth, a dollar a day or you know, a penny a week, whatever, that over time compounds and and actually leads to. You know, so we're swinging for the fences to try to win big on the stock market, or you're you're an entrepreneur and you happen to land big and then you think you're gonna land big. And the truth is you're gonna fail most of the time. And what accounts for all most of the wealth in the world and the success uh are these huge, huge wins. But the the the the tortoise is getting ahead of the hare because over time they outperform, right? Like a stock, just consistent. I believe emotionally the holidays are very much that same way. What Phyllis was talking about, which you were talking about, Phil, was we we have all these trapped problems, um uh, you know, the chronic success uh stress and anxiety, this this burnout, these tension in relationships, these things that we bring to the holiday with the idea that they're gonna, it's gonna be perfect and I'm gonna feel better. And it's an unrealistic expectation that has no possible means of success. And deep down subconsciously, the silent but deadly is we know that, but then we mask it. And actually, psychology today uh actually talked about that. It's like the psychological toll of holiday perfectionalism, and one of those things is masking the deeper emotional struggles that people are going through and having. And so, you know, I think that's the silent but deadly. When in actuality, if you just kind of think about the fun parts of the holidays, watching football, having a turkey leg, or having your hand, you know, having a beer with around the fire, it's the simple, small things. And I think most people want that simplicity, and they're tired of the complexity, but they don't they don't know how to bridge that because somebody in there is saying it's gotta be perfect. There's that aunt, that sister, that uncle, that cousin, whatever, that everything's gotta be right, and nobody wants to stand up because society says, Oh, you're just being a bah humbug. And and so everybody just kind of stands back, lets it happen, versus going, let's just keep it real. Let's just go out, let's go to Chinese food or something.

SPEAKER_05:

You know, Al, after Hurricane Katrina, um uh we made a decision in Tim's family that we were not going to um buy any gifts, that we were going to, if there was going to be any kind of gift exchange, we were going to recycle something in our house, something that meant to us, write a letter, make a donation if we wanted to in somebody's honor, but that there like no more stuff coming, like stuff coming in. And we did that for years, and it was very meaningful and quiet. Um, and I'm using that word like um very carefully because um it wasn't um as much of the um frenetic frenzy or the high perhaps that you get out of buying something. It was just quiet and it was meaningful and it was very lovely because when you gave the gift, you also got to tell the story, right? So I'm giving you a book that meant something to me, or I'm taking literally taking a piece of a picture, something hanging in our home that we think you would love and giving it to you because we think you would love it. But let us tell us why, let us tell you why it meant something to me. And then there were the funny things, you know, like a toilet plunger or something like that. Okay, not a toilet plunger, but oh, but see, toilet plunger, get it? Yeah, maybe some toilet paper, I don't know. You know, kind of funny things, but it was just a lovely, um, lovely um thing to do. And I will say, I think like one of the best presents that I um give uh Tim. Only I do this on our anniversary, not for okay, but we'll can use it as an example anyway, is just a list I keep all year long of the things that he does all year long that really touch my heart or mean something to me. And it's it literally can be that simple, but it is quiet. I mean, it is much more quiet than the the frenet freneticism of what typically goes on during the holidays.

SPEAKER_02:

I look at traditions as my anchor for the holidays. Um and to me, you know, I have a couple of external traditions and a couple of internal traditions. You know, internal traditions by that I mean traditions for myself that I honor my my own peace and quiet through some meditation, some writing, um, reflection, so on and so forth. Um and that over the years has also been shared with, you know, you know, my my my ex-wife, you know, my people I've dated, friends. But then I have some external traditions, and and for me, as an born extrovert, those traditions are really, really important. Um I have an annual Dirty Santa poker game that we've been doing for almost 30 years. And I still have some of the gifts from you know 20 years ago, things like that. Uh, I have an end-of-the-year new year golf tournament I've been doing, also now approaching its 31st year, I think. Um, and and so those are traditions. Then, of course, there's the traditional stuff going out and seeing Christmas lights. I've even done that by myself, right? But the greatest thing around the holidays to me is if people can just stop for a minute and ask themselves, what would make this the most special holiday for you? And I think the majority of most people would have the same answer. Time for myself and time with people I care about. And I think if you just ask the average person what that looks like, and then gave them the opportunity to share those stories with one another, things get a lot easier, they get less complicated. Um so I I don't I I mean, do you agree, disagree, Mark?

SPEAKER_00:

I first want to acknowledge the gift that you give Tim with writing that list. Uh that's probably one of the most thoughtful, loving gifts um someone one human could give another human, uh, whether you're married, dating, friends, whatever. Um we've talked so much on this show about losing loved ones and and um to be able to share while people are with us, what they mean to us, is worth more than any other gift uh you you can find out there. So I just want to acknowledge that. Um and and then Al to you know, your your point, I do. I think people crave connectivity, but that create cat connectivity that they crave so much is I think is also the thing that is some of the most stressful around the holidays. There are so many people to see. Um, there's so many expectations of how much time you're gonna spend with somebody. Uh a buddy of mine, Todd's flying in from Vegas to go be with his family for Thanksgiving. He's gonna be here for 70 some odd hours. And I've got to try to fit in my crazy schedule with his crazy schedule, so I can maybe see him for 10 minutes. Um and so I think that there's a lot of stress with that when if maybe we didn't just push it all onto the holiday um to to do those things, um, it might create a little less stress in our in our world. But yeah, I completely agree. I I don't think there's a gift out there that that time together is uh worth more than.

SPEAKER_02:

What's the simplest holiday that you can remember? Phyllis, you s maybe you I think you might have touched on it, but I don't want to assume. When you think about the complexity of the holidays, um what in your memory is like the simplest, least complex holiday experience you've ever had, whether it was, you know, Christmas, New Year's, whatever, that that really sticks in your mind is memorable.

SPEAKER_05:

I'm gonna say this and then I hope people are okay with it. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, once it's out there, it's out there.

SPEAKER_05:

I mean, yeah. So I think the simplest thing, and Tim and I used to do this, um, is that um for Christmas, um we there were several years when we would do an early Christmas with his parents, like the week before. And then actually during that time, we would go away, um, usually to New Orleans because it's one of our favorite cities. And we would just spend the holidays either together, um, just the two of us, or sometimes uh we had really good friends who would meet us there. And they it was lovely and simple and easy. And I'm not at all suggesting people should leave their families for Christmas, but for us, um, for us and our work schedules, those two weeks were the weeks, like or however nine days, those were the weeks that we had off. And we just made a decision that we needed to pay attention to ourselves and and to our families, but in a different way. Um, and that those years were really amazingly um easy, simple, fun years that left us, uh, that left us recharged and just gave us a chance to reconnect. And I think like what I'm trying to convey to people is maybe think we can all think a little different, you know. Maybe the tip isn't um, you know, remember to drink water and not eat too much. Maybe the tip really is think about new ways that you can um make less complex and less exhaustive holidays. Maybe there are new traditions. And that's not to say you have to do them every year, but maybe it's some of the years when things are really just moving a little too fast, you have something else in mind. Um, and you can find peace in that.

SPEAKER_02:

Cascading off of that, the simplest for me is I think uh kind of an extension of what you're talking about, and that is one year um my my ex-wife and I and our kids, we decided uh that we were not going to do presents. Instead, any of the money we were going to spend for gifts for ourselves and each other uh and the kids and all that, we were gonna take that money and we were just gonna buy gifts for families that didn't have gifts and that weren't gonna have a Christmas. And at that time, um, way, way long ago, it was easier access. So we went, we live in Jacksonville, Florida, and we went to Wolfson Children's Hospital, and we just brought random gifts as well to kids that were in the hospital um at Wolfson Children's Hospital. And back then you you could, I was pre-COVID and all that kind of stuff. Um something happened that we never expected, and when she and I talked about it afterwards, and even the kids said it was easier, and they were young at that time, they were you know pre-teen, just around teen. And what was easy was we didn't fret about what we bought because we bought things that we just knew people would appreciate. Somebody was gonna appreciate that doll, someone's gonna appreciate that tic-tac-doe game, someone's gonna appreciate that brush because it's something that they didn't have, and it was something that was fun, and we didn't know if they were gonna appreciate it or not, so the pressure was off. It was the giving of that gift. Okay. And then the last thing we did was we said, hey, what is the coolest thing you guys could eat? And so all of us were off for a couple days, so each one of us got to pick whatever you wanted to eat, and um that was what made up our Christmas dinner. We had pizza, barbecue, steak, and I don't remember what the other one was. It was the most fablung, which is a Yiddish word for effed up, for messed up, crazy buffet of food. That was our Christmas dinner. Everybody got to have a little something that they loved that was represented there. Um, and I remember we would we talked about it years afterwards, and everybody was like, Yeah, that was cool. That was easy. And you'd think about it, oh, that must be very complex. You had to do a lot of you know, you figure out where you're gonna go to the hospital, you had to do this, you had to do that. No, dude. It was so easy because the pressure was off. We were doing it for the general love of giving to others versus pleasing others.

SPEAKER_04:

Big distinction.

SPEAKER_00:

Really, what these holidays, again, are based in is like not it's it's on giving.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, that is a mic drop, Phil. You're right. I just realized in saying that how powerful that is. Sorry, I'm papping myself in the back. Let me ask you, nothing.

SPEAKER_05:

Al just gave himself a mic drop.

SPEAKER_00:

I can I do that?

SPEAKER_05:

I don't think you're allowed, I don't think you're allowed to do that.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I'm doing it. I'm checking our rule books. I'm doing it.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh I don't I don't know if that's a thing. I am mic dropping myself, and that is really is is when you're giving, when you're doing for others, are you trying to please that person? Because I I would I would advocate that the act of doing is enough. And and that just doesn't happen around the holidays, that's every freaking day of the week. All right. So let's bring let's let's let's let's bring this kind of full circle here. Um what isn't magical for you about the holidays? This is where you get to kind of sprinkle some fart dust uh on the holidays. We've we've talked, yeah, Phil. You get you get your little fart dust. Um I don't want you to sprinkle your fart dust, I just want you to share your thoughts. But um we're not being bah humbug here. We're not we've already expressed that, but like it is a part of the holidays that you're like, uh, complicated or not, I could just do without that.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh I don't know. I don't know what I could remove from the holidays at this point. I got I'll just start it off.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, you start there are two th there are two things. Um, and one of them is I could do without the incessant amount of ads that start running so far in advance. I just like I God bless God bless you. I don't need to be seeing those ads pop up every single time, and I don't know the data behind it and what the conversion rate is, but anyway, I could that's one.

SPEAKER_01:

The the second, and this is gonna probably be a little bit like oh, you're a stinky poo, whatever, fart on you, you're a Jew. Uh see, I made a little Dr. Seuss there.

SPEAKER_02:

I had to, I hadn't done a rhyme yet, okay? But no that's the rhyme. Well, well, when I say it, it'll make sense. And that is um small doses with the with the holiday music. I was you know what? When you were yes. Well, I'm not saying get rid of it. Like everybody's got their Harry Conic and their jingle bell and their Burrow Lives and all that. That's fine. Give me some U2 singing, whatever Roger Daltrey's version or whatever. I don't know, not Roger. But God, man, we don't need it for that long.

SPEAKER_00:

I know Mariah Carey listens to this show, but I cannot listen to her songs at the Christmas. I'm sorry, Mariah. I I apologize, but I can't do it.

SPEAKER_05:

So here's everything I could do without Al, thanks for kind of getting that framed up in my head for a minute. I could do without all of everything you said. I and I know the dog is barking. Tim is not here, but there's nothing I can do. It's everybody get used to it. It's part of the show. It is. Um I could do without all of that. I also could do without like um, I don't want to talk about anything nutrition-wise. I do not want to discuss it. There's it's the holidays. People are gonna do what they're gonna do. I don't need to see weight loss ads like starting now. I don't need to hear experts coming on saying don't eat too many cubes of cheese. Um I don't need to literally have experts coming on news and talking about anything, quite honestly. Like is this really what it's become? It's become like, how do you like like do we really need to hear about that during the holidays? Even how to wrap a present, anything. It's like it's been done.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, what what about this? Uh how about for the holidays? We don't start celebrating the holidays in September. Okay. I mean, decorations go up for Halloween and Christmas almost at the same time. And and I can't even celebrate one holiday. I've got I've got fifteen to choose from. I'm buying Christmas lights uh uh uh you know before Halloween's even started. It doesn't make sense. I don't like it. I could do without that.

SPEAKER_05:

You know what else I could do without? What could I do? I do sound bitter. Oh wait, there's more. I don't want like how much more how many more times do we have to talk about I know I sound horrible when I say this, budgeting. It just makes everybody nervous, quite honestly. And it's I mean, yes, you can ignore it, you can just move your way, you know, move away. But really, do we like really? That's what we're gonna talk about.

SPEAKER_00:

I've got a funny story around that. So when I was a kid, my grandmother, same grandmother that hit my cousin, um, she used to own a um, I guess you would call it a lingerie store. She sold bras and things like that. So she used to give us our gifts in bra boxes. Hold on. Which was always which was always really funny and um and not funny when you're a little kid and you don't really understand. But um anyway, so she used to give us gifts in bra boxes, and then you'd open up the gift, and then she would proceed to tell you how much she spent on said gift. Yes, right? Like I could do without that. It's like, oh, you like that? That was twenty-nine dollars. Oh, you like that, that was fifteen dollars. Oh, I'm glad that you really like that's a hundred dollars. I mean, really, I don't need I don't need to know.

SPEAKER_02:

I I think part of that too, though, is generational too. I mean, I I remember um some of my my grandmother and some older relatives would do something similar. Um, because the I don't know. I I don't know your grandmother, but I I don't I don't want to get punched by her, and maybe she would punch me if I was saying this, but I think part of it's just generational too. It was like they because that was a way to equate uh or maybe even cultural, that's a way to equate the value of it. Um I don't know. Um the other thing I could do without is New Year's resolutions.

SPEAKER_05:

Oh me too. Amen.

SPEAKER_02:

Now I now I want to be very clear to those of you. I am a manifester, I am a meditator. Um, I I totally believe in manifesting, right? Um, and I would not have said this probably a few years ago, but life's trauma and life's joys and ups and downs have taught me just what a farce uh and a total far shitstorm New Year's resolutions are. This idea that um this day starts that fresh start. It's sort of like asking somebody right after they got married, like a week later, how does it feel to be married? Well, it should feel pretty much the same way it felt like two to six months before you got married. I'm really happy. I'm really glad to be with this person. It's like the things that you need to do on January 1, um, you probably needed to be doing on December 1st. Um, but hey, if that's a start date, great. Um, I also know that there's you know, dopamine hit that comes from all right, I'm gonna do this then. But we already know that majority of those resolutions go away. And here's here's the proof. Gym memberships drop off something like 80% or 70% within the first two or three months. Um app sales, majority of physical fitness mobile apps are sold in the first 60 days, 45 to 60 days of the year, and something like less than half to three-quarters of them ever get renewed. And and so um, I don't know, man. Let's let's just kind of stretch that out as a normal way of going. Hey, the things we want on January 1st are things we should apply in our lives regularly, and I think you think it gets a little simpler. Like, what should I be doing on January 1st, 2026? Let me start doing that today. Anyway, that's my rant. You go like that. I like that. That's a good rant. It is time for us to make a very tough call, and that is to alleviate our listeners uh the pain of of any more of this uh this side of gas. Instead, let's close with gratitude, right? Like we've talked about what we don't want, we've talked about what we why the stresses and the holidays. Uh the most simple expression in everyday life of that leads to joy and happiness is gratitude. Um, and so what I would love for us to close with, and I'll start, and Mark, you can close, or Phil, whatever. Um I'd I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna throw out the idea. We didn't talk about this, but I'd like to throw out the idea of an internal gratitude and an external gratitude. And we're gonna keep it really, really simple. Internal gratitude is gratitude for yourself, an expression of the gratitude within yourself. And then the the the second is externally, gratitude for for external things. And so um, my internal gratitude for this year is the gratitude of self-reflection and inner peace amid great storms, whether that is my own brainwiring, God, all the above, definitely the faith and friendship of you two and so many of my friends. Um I just carry a never-ending supply of gratitude uh internally. The external gratitude um is this show in part as it relates to this show. This has been therapy for us, therapy for me. This has been a life lesson, this has been a professional lesson. But most importantly, the two of you this journey has been the most transparent, truthful, and beautiful, raw expression of life that I could imagine. Because what we've gone through in questioning ourselves, trying to figure out our schedules, our own personal dilemmas and challenges that have occurred, every single step of the way since we committed to this, the three of us have been by each other's side like fricking, you know, battles and commanders and and the I mean commanders in the middle of a battle, just you know, hey, I'll take the helm. No, I'll take the helm. All right, I got the helm. I got you, I'm not gonna let you fall. And so that external gratitude also extends to my friends and family who who have been with with with me on this tough year. But but to see where this show is, to know where we began, um, and to have you two by my side knowing what's coming, that's that's my gratitude.

SPEAKER_05:

Mark, how are we supposed to go after that?

SPEAKER_00:

I was just gonna say, I don't I was hoping you were gonna go next. I don't know that I can follow it.

SPEAKER_05:

And then there was silence.

SPEAKER_00:

And then there was silence. All right, well then I guess I I will I will go next. Um what I'm grateful for. I'm I'm grateful for, and and you know, it goes back to these stories. I'm grateful for all the crazy stories and memories that I have of the holidays. Um I'm grateful for the opportunity to create new traditions, like you were saying, um with friends, family. Um and I'm grateful to be here. Uh, you know, that we were so lucky that we were even born. And so just to even be here with you guys and to celebrate holidays and to celebrate the truths that come out in this show, uh, I I I'm uh eternally grateful for for all of that. Um I think for me, the thing that I'm going into this new year and through the holidays grateful for is remembering that there's the so many wonderful people around me. And I'm I'm I'm really so thankful every day uh to call you both family, um, to have so so so um so close relationships with you both and you know, with folks outside the show, and and and I'm just uh like you, Al, I'm just uh eternally grateful for for other people. So awesome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Why would I ever let you go before me?

SPEAKER_00:

I I just recurred to the case.

SPEAKER_02:

So Phil, I want you to know that the the anchor is not uh totally on your lap because there is actually a curveball I'm gonna throw at the very end. So you could be saved, but but hey, lay it on us though. Lay it on us. Yeah, do it. Oh great, oh great farce.

SPEAKER_05:

I really had been yes, yes. I really had been thinking about this the other day, and I think very barely, very similarly to the two uh to what the two of you have said. I am I am grateful to wake up every day and just get to be me. That's just the truth. And that that's been a long time coming. I didn't always feel that way. And I think this show, working with the two of you, life's journey, my willingness to um explore um and um do internal work makes that has made that incredibly um possible. I'm just gonna glad to be alive um and healthy. I am very, very grateful um to wake up every day healthy. I'm incredibly grateful um for my family and my friends that are my family. Um, and they are all over the country at this particular point. Um, and some people say, you know, you, you know, you lost your mom, your family's really small. I I am just very, very blessed, quite honestly, um, to have some amazing family members um by blood and by birth and have amazing family members who are um friends, uh turned family. Um I am extremely grateful um to have learned a really hard lesson um this year about control and about facing adversity and how that ultimate decision is mine, how I'm gonna let that impact me on a daily basis. And so I have found um great peace in knowing that two things can be happening at the same time. But I actually do get to choose how I wake up and face every day how things can get compartmentalized. It doesn't mean, you know, there are not moments of extreme or haven't been moments of extreme fear or anger. But at the end of the day, um, that's been a really beautiful lesson for me to know that some bad things are have happened or are going to happen, and some beautiful things continue to happen if only I will open my eyes and be on the lookout and accept them as they as they are coming. I'm sure there's a million more things I can say, um, but I'm gonna finish here. Obviously, I'm grateful for the two of you who have um walked me to a place where I would actually sit here and have this conversation um and do this podcast. And I know that hasn't always been easy for you or for me for the More for you.

SPEAKER_00:

I think it's been tougher for you. It's been pretty hard for us. It's not been hard for us.

SPEAKER_05:

Probably so. But one of the things I'm really, really grateful for, and it's happened to me because I've been doing a little traveling for work and out and about, is when people come up and say, Hey, I'm I'm listening to the podcast and I really like it. Or I'm uh, you know, somebody will call and say, Hey, I I just listened and this is what I learned. And that is such a lovely gift. Unexpected, completely unexpected, but oh so very, so very meaningful.

SPEAKER_02:

Love all that. All right, so curveball breaking with tradition. Uh, we're gonna actually close the show, and Phyllis and Mark have no clue that I am tossing them this curveball because it is time for our year-end holiday roll up. That's right. Yeah, man. We are stepping into the stall to go deep into the most meaningful things that far beyond or exceed gratitude. Uh, we're gonna go ahead and crank up, uh, I think as you called it, Phil, we're gonna close with some gratitude and a side of gas. And so here we go. Um, yeah, here we go. Uh so Phyllis, Mark, L. You have either yourself created or others have created that bad holiday smell that can only come from inside your body through the passage of some fart gas. And you need to make sure it's eradicated in the toy toy. That would be the toilet. What is your flavorful spray of choice?

SPEAKER_05:

Oh, hands down, if you light a match and drop it into the um toilet, then the smell goes away.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, so you were gonna choose of all the different aromas out there, you're gonna choose a match.

SPEAKER_05:

Otherwise, it's flowery poo. So if you light a match and then blow it out really quickly and drop it in the toilet, that's why I have matches in the bathroom.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Well, you know, I just I I just did then someone's gonna know like your ass is on fire or something.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. They're gonna be so glad you had matches.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, I was wondering actually why you had matches in the bathroom when I was at Jack. Everybody, I really ever know that. Every woman knows for sure. Well, now I didn't I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_05:

Otherwise, what are you gonna have? Lemon poop? Uh you know, I actually don't knock that out.

SPEAKER_00:

Hey, I I bought this this uh this spray, and uh it it's kind of like a perfumey cologney smell.

SPEAKER_05:

Cologney, is that like baloney?

SPEAKER_00:

It's kind of like baloney. So I, you know, a little a little dabadooy. You do a little and please do not say a little dabble do you when we're talking about the potty humor. A little dab, you know.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, I know you're trying to conserve on toilet paper, but more than a little dabble do you. Well, all right.

SPEAKER_00:

Not too much spray, because then you've got that weird, like I just came out of the bathroom cologne on.

SPEAKER_04:

There is the poopourri that if you put the drop toilet, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

That one's cool.

SPEAKER_02:

So I'm gonna hashtag these guys because uh they are my favorite brand. Now, much it is a great, but Phyllis, I like the lemon, okay? Lemon is a great smell in the bathroom because I don't want to put like there's this like oak cinnamon. Now they're coming out with all these different scents, and like, I don't know, man. It's like lemon could be cleaner. I mean, everybody knows why this. If the spray's there, you know what it's there for, right? There's no more hidden gems, okay?

SPEAKER_05:

Just light the match, blow it out, drop it in the chat.

SPEAKER_02:

So we got a match, we got whatever marks nondescript flavor.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, or I'd probably have that cinnamon nutmeg, whatever, nutmeg. It smells like a cinnamon really bad apple pie.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, that's exactly it for sure.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. Next question. Does it disturb you, yay or nay, to have toilet paper that has holiday pictures of reindeer or Santa or Mrs. Santa on it? Ew.

SPEAKER_05:

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm bothered just talking about that. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05:

I'm bothered thinking about it.

SPEAKER_02:

It's true though. Do you see it? It's like toilet. No, if you Google toilet goo holiday toilet paper, and there's toilet paper that you can actually imprint fam like pictures on. Like, why would you want a picture of your family on your toilet paper as you're wiping your ass?

SPEAKER_05:

So let's wind the reel backwards. And so if you have family members coming and you're maybe not in like such a good space, then you have their picture put on the toilet paper, and then when they go to the bathroom, put it in the guest bathroom.

SPEAKER_02:

That is like a threat matrix there. You can say, Hey, listen, if you're not good to me this year, you're not getting a coal. You're not getting coal in your stocking, you're getting your picture on my toilet paper.

SPEAKER_04:

I'd let it be a surprise. I would just let it be a surprise.

SPEAKER_02:

Mark is like, Mark feels like he's been living in in like the dark right now.

SPEAKER_00:

I had no idea these tools existed. I'm yeah, it's I can't wait. All right. Someone's getting that this year.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, last question. Last question here. Unless you guys have one. If you I mean, I I no, no, no, this is your party. Okay. This is a card. All right. If you were stuck in the potty over the holidays, like the door jam uh locked, and you were like, oh my god, I'm stuck, and there was one Christmas song playing in the bathroom, knowing we've already said we're gonna banish these. What would be the one Christmas song that you could handle stuck in the the bathroom, the the the stall with?

SPEAKER_00:

None of them. I I couldn't just nonstop. Like, yeah, it's it's it's on yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

I'm sitting here contemplating if I could handle um Draydle, Draydle, Dradel like over and over and over again.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh God, please, no. No. I there's not one song. I couldn't do it. I I have a tough time. Like, you know, some of our radio stations here will play Christmas music starting in Thanksgiving. I have to wait till like three days before Christmas before I start listening to that stuff on on repeat. Just can't do it.

SPEAKER_02:

Alright, mine is, and I I was trying to Google it because I can't remember it.

SPEAKER_05:

Um The Snoopy Peanut song.

SPEAKER_02:

What's the big orchestra one? Um Manheim? Manheim Steamroller. Yeah. Manheim's Manheim Steamroller. Ironically, I think Steamroller is funny. Phyllis, you're not even responding. Are you distracted?

SPEAKER_05:

I'm looking up a song that I want to tell you.

SPEAKER_02:

I am sitting here so excited about Manheim Steamroller.

SPEAKER_05:

But you said Steamroller.

SPEAKER_02:

We gotta tag, we gotta tag them, isn't it? All right. Um, so any other inputs before we we output this show? Happy holidays, y'all. Happy holidays, holidays, happy new year. Um, whatever it is, download it, enjoy it, appreciate it. But for crying out loud, don't overthink it. This is the complexity of toilet paper. Did you say toilet and paper?

SPEAKER_01:

I'm overthinking.

Head Shot

Al Emerick

Host
Head Shot

Mark Pollack

Host
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Phyllis Martin

Host