The Complexity of Toilet Paper

Year-End Aha Moments

• Complexity • Season 1 • Episode 18

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Our season finale pulls back the curtain on a year of recording together—late nights, missed takes, hard pivots—and reveals the simple truths we kept meeting in the stall: action breaks overthinking, grace sustains momentum, and authenticity beats polish every time. Along the way, our guests gave us golden nuggets of wisdom and our shared insights brought joy, laughter, harmony, and huge Aha's:

• why authenticity beats polish
• how action interrupts overthinking
• managing fear so it doesn’t steal joy
• energy transfer as a lens on rumination
• trusting the conversation over the script
• what we learned from each other’s growth
• gratitude to listeners for time and presence
• season two plans and new guest directions

We swap a rigid show format for a living conversation and watch the dialogue deepen. Listeners tell us they walk, commute, and unwind with the pod, and their presence sharpens our purpose. We spotlight the insights that stuck and get personal about growth: learning to show up as ourselves instead of “performers,” trusting each other’s timing, and treating consistency like a marathon, not a sprint.

Looking ahead, we’re doubling down on clarity and warmth. Expect conversations that make life’s sticky moments simpler to act on: how fear hides in smart habits, how to stop the energy bleed of analysis, and how community makes courage contagious. We’ll bring on voices across entrepreneurship, creativity, and everyday decision-making, while keeping the humor and heart you’ve come to expect.

If this year’s aha moments sparked something for you, share the show with a friend, subscribe, and leave a review. Your presence keeps the conversation honest—and helps more people roll with it.

SPEAKER_02:

Sometimes I wish we could go back to a time when things weren't so complicated.

SPEAKER_03:

Welcome to the complexity of toilet paper, the podcast that dives into the everyday moments where we overthink, hesitate, or just get stubborn overtaking. Through honest conversations, unexpected insights, and a whole lot of humor, your hosts Phyllis Martin, Mark Pollock, and Al Emmerich are here to help you roll with it and make your life a little less complicated. One conversation at a time. Right, dude. The beauty of this is its simplicity. Speaking of which, it's time to enter the stall. Put the lid down, or not, depending. Get comfortable and roll with it. Oh, worry not, dear friend. It's really quite simple. This is the complexity of toilet paper.

SPEAKER_05:

AHA. Now you might just think of those three letters as uh a couple of vowels and a consonant. But when you put them together and you create aha or aha, you end up with the realization that you have a powerful word, powerful word, like an aha moment. Welcome to the complexity of toilet papers final episode of 2025, episode 18, and a series of aha moments. How does it feel, Phyllis Martin, Mark Pollack, to be sitting here in the bowl, in the stall, having accomplished a year's worth of this crazy shit?

SPEAKER_01:

I can't believe it's been a year. I can't believe season one is over. How'd that happen? It feels like yesterday we were recording our first. It's been more than a year. Well, with the planning and stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, like uh but I mean we I don't even remember when when did we first launch an episode? June 3rd.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_05:

June 3rd was the first episode. Yeah. And technically speaking, we had recorded what, like five? No. Maybe three.

SPEAKER_01:

Maybe three at that point.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. But there was a lot of planning that went into it ahead of months.

SPEAKER_05:

Um so we're here to talk about the aha moments of the year. And Phil, um you you put together as you always do, some sort of an outline. But I was curious even before we start getting into this outline, um, when you were thinking about how do we look past on a year. What what were you like the first thoughts that came to you? Like like what were the first things that hit your brain when you said, Oh gosh, it's the last episode of the year, and we're about to do another year? Do you remember?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I feel like um like the the stop and the start of it, so like the coming to an end of a year, um, really had escaped me because it feels very natural to be together, like we're in such a routine in a good way together, um, that it didn't really dawn on me that there was a a mo like like the moment in time was coming. So it really wasn't until Al you had sent over like the way that you had been thinking about it that I thought, oh, well, this makes, you know, this makes perfectly, perfectly good sense. I think I knew, because I'm nothing if not self-reflective, that I would have aha's myself. But but then, you know, broadening that out a little bit to think about it um in different dimensions and different ways uh made so much sense, made so much sense to me. But now when people say, like, how's the podcast going, it's like saying, How is breakfast? Because I feel like it's just part of who I am. It's part of who we are. Um, it's a whole lot of fun to do. And I'm always learning, and I'm uh the more um listeners we have, I think the feedback and just, you know, what what people are willing to share, um, I I found really uh fascinating.

SPEAKER_05:

We need to give you some insight. Uh and she might put me in time out for this one, and I'm willing to take that. But so we tried to record this show uh like a week previous to our normal launching, we're doing it like and it's the end of the year, it's the holidays and all that, and we had some technical difficulties, and so the way our schedules worked, the only time that we could actually record this show was on the 22nd of December, which is literally I had something all day, and I'm coming right off of an event down in St. Augustine. Phyllis wakes up at like 4 a.m. in the morning, and so this is so past her bedtime.

SPEAKER_00:

So past my bedtime. And so what you need to-I should have worn my jammies.

SPEAKER_05:

You're getting the real Phyllis. I mean, this is but but just before we cracked the mic, Mark, back me up here.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh just before Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

We were like, like, hey, how's it? We always like before we open the mic, it's like, hey, how you doing? And Phyllis was just like STFU, let's just go.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. Yeah, like 100%. It was like, it's past my bedtime, hit record.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, we gotta start now. Yeah, and also I was watching this great um, I don't think it's a documentary, I don't know what to call it. It's on Netflix, but it's about 1975, like the different facets of 1975, which I was finding fascinating.

SPEAKER_01:

God, that sounds boring.

SPEAKER_00:

No, what? What do you mean? What? Wow, you just you just shit on 1975. You're out.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Never say that to you either. It's always directly out.

SPEAKER_05:

He's a kid, he's a child. Come on. What? Yeah, he's much he's so much younger than us. What?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I wasn't born in 1959. I wasn't alive in 1975.

SPEAKER_00:

Like the movies from 1971. Is that true? Oh my god, is it true?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I was born in 1978.

SPEAKER_04:

Wait a minute. Are you serious? Yeah, my my 48th birthday is next month.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, so no.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, yeah. Thanks for caring, guys.

SPEAKER_00:

No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_05:

No, no, no, no. I knew you were no, this was not about caring. This is about my terrible math because I just never it's like one of those things, like, of course he was around in 75, but you're right. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01:

I'll be 48 in January.

SPEAKER_00:

So what's happening here?

SPEAKER_04:

I thought we were talking talk about aha moments.

SPEAKER_00:

This is why I go to bed when I go to bed. Here it is.

SPEAKER_05:

Hey, baby, here's your screw all this format that we thought we were gonna talk about. Let's just figure out what shit we haven't figured out in all the years we've known each other. Apparently, the fact that Mark is is still in a manger. Uh I'm not that young.

SPEAKER_01:

But thank you. I mean, I I do I I I do wish I looked younger, but no, no, that's this is it. You look plenty young. Thanks. Thanks.

SPEAKER_05:

All right, so Phil Young man.

SPEAKER_02:

This is why sound right coming out of my mouth.

SPEAKER_01:

This is why I don't tell anybody. Okay.

SPEAKER_05:

That was very Dustin Hoffman and you know, the graduate, Phyllis. So, hey, welcome to the complexity of toilet paper. Um, we just wanted to give you we always try to be authentic. Uh, not that we haven't been, but we thought we'd go a little bit even further behind to let you know that just a few minutes ago, approximately now 17 minutes and 13 seconds, Phyllis was throwing daggers, and now she is a ball of daisies and love and joy.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh, there was some hate tossed my way for being my my age, but that's cool. We can move on to the aha's. It's fine. I'll get over. I'll get over it. We were shocking. Shocking.

SPEAKER_00:

Never hate.

SPEAKER_04:

Shocking. All right.

SPEAKER_05:

Uh so what?

SPEAKER_00:

I don't understand.

SPEAKER_05:

What's happening here? Uh welcome to the complexity of toilet paper, the rewind uh again of the introduction. Uh, I'm Al Emmerich. I'm Mark Pollock.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm Phyllis Martin.

SPEAKER_05:

And we have arrived at that point where we want to unpack just really what we've experienced this year. And and let let's let's first set the tone. Why we're doing this has nothing to do with just us as in the three of us. It has to do with us as in you. Um, whether you are listening for the first time or whether you're listening multiple times, we have guests who have shared wonderful things with us, learned wonderful things. We have learned wonderful things, and you've been alongside with us participating. Uh, many of you dropped notes and comments on Facebook, uh, videos, funny gifts and memes. And so we decided to the one thing we didn't want to do is to make this this, you know, hey, let's do the year in review. Uh, that's just kind of like yeah, yeah, we were all gonna have to use that voice. Philos try it. Go use that voice. I just like fucking mother. Anyway, uh see if she would do it.

SPEAKER_02:

Hey, that's Erin Review.

SPEAKER_01:

That's that was pretty good.

SPEAKER_05:

Okay, that sounds like Gollum was in prison. Okay. My precious.

SPEAKER_03:

Next duty here in review. Oh, now it's Kirk. Kirk Frog. Okay, these are more ahawk.

SPEAKER_04:

Who knew folks? Who knew? Oh my god, this is Mark. This show is full of aha's, and we're weird. We're we just got started. 1002.

SPEAKER_05:

We're 10 02 in, and we've gone from Phyllis uh the exorcist to Phyllis the Righteous One sharing her deep thoughts about the intensity of the integrity of our show to Kermit the Frog and Gollum.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, I think we're gonna have to move our recordings to eight o'clock every time now.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh my god. I'm gonna have to take a nap midday if we're gonna do one. And that'll be great.

SPEAKER_05:

I will take daggers if it means we get this. All right. So um, joking aside, never. Welcome to this this journey. And so we we are here because we want to share what we've experienced with you. And our our hope is that you you you appreciate this. Uh, we hope our guests are listening and they appreciate it. Um and so I like uh speaking of guests, Phil, you you why don't you start us off here? Um we we wanted to look back at what we learned or some aha moments from our guests. And obviously there's a lot, but we pared it down to a few. So start the ball rolling.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so I I actually did give this some thought, as you know I might. And I think for every guest, one of the biggest aha's for me, and like it's an aha, and everyone's gonna listen and go, yeah, big deal, but it's important, um is um the genuine humanity that that each guest brought to the show, meaning um their own humility, um, their own um insecurities that they were very, very um candid and transparent about, and their own um unique voices without trepidation or fear. And I think I use the word humanity because I learned so much from listening to them and the grace with which they gave us um to be in the stall with us and to ask questions and to to go back and forth. And so I think my biggest aha was just we really are all human beings trying to do the best we can on any on any given day. And from that aha really came, yes, I'm probably always gonna be an overthinker to some degree. I question now more than ever the necessity of doing that. Like, is there really a necessity when we are all just doing the very best we can and beautiful things are happening because we and they are doing the very best that they can and are willing to share that.

SPEAKER_01:

And that's our show, ladies and gentlemen.

unknown:

Wow.

SPEAKER_03:

So so that I Phil, I mean there's so much there.

SPEAKER_05:

I mean, honestly, I mean I didn't I thought we were opening up starting with just like specifics from guests. I mean, I think you just you just put it to the end of the show already. I mean, like that's like told you I have to go to bed. Okay that's the welcome to the 13-minute show. Thanks, Phyllis. But I I'll just jump on that, Phil, because because uh I I think that your identification there was a part of me, and and so much of this is because of where I was when we started the show, where I am now. Uh, this has been a year of a great deal of transition for those of you beyond Phyllis and Mark and the stall. Um a great deal of transition for me. I have moved, I've had relationship changes, um, I've had job uh career transition. Um quite honestly, other than friends, you know, my immediate family, my son, and the dear dear friendships, as I mentioned, you know, in its own weird way, the complexity of toilet paper and value mapping have been my my constants. And in and in some ways, the complexity of toilet paper and you two have have been even the most constant, right? Because it's it's that thing we set out to do and we actually did it. Um but you said something that resonated loudly, and that was I'll always be an overthinker. And there was a part of me that maybe I think didn't realize it until you just said this, but I think there was a part of me that was hoping that somehow this show was going to help me figure something out. Because I, you know, it's like, oh, go to GSD, get shit done. So somehow I'm gonna absorb this uh through osmosis, this insight, and I'm gonna flip a switch. Um and there are, and I'm gonna share some of those, but we're not gonna stop overthinking. It's to the degree of which we think and what we overthink and and what we ponder and how we approach it. Um so I I gosh, Phil, that's a real deep, powerful start to the show. Thank you for that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, thank you both. I mean, that I think is powerful. I I I would say that my biggest aha from our from our guests has been though action. So if you think about Tyler, if you think about Quinitha, if you you you think about Ron uh and and really everybody who who's graced our our microphones this year, it's a been about action. So while we might overthink, there there comes a point that we're going to have to do something with the thinking. And that was what resonated most across all of our guests were the ones who talked about the action. There was fear, there was trepidation, there was consequences, but at the end of the day, they took an action. And where the fallacy of overthinking from our guests is that it just becomes the action itself. So overthinking becomes the action versus doing something that you just thought about. And and that that was kind of my takeaway from our guests this year.

SPEAKER_00:

And that's yeah, that's right, Mark. I mean, that resonates with me a lot and really really well said. And I feel like that's what we've done as I've watched the three of us over the past year. That's what we did with the podcast, which we could have overthought for another two years before we did anything, but we did it. And then as each of us has faced some challenges, I mean, who doesn't face challenges in the course of a year, right? As we face those, we have been able to move to action. Um, what I've learned from our guests, uh, whether it's uh Quanitha or Ron or Lori or Mal or any guest that we've had, all of the guests, quite honestly, is that they gave themselves grace when they got to the action. They didn't dwell on, oh my God, it took me four months, or why did I, you know, ask 37 questions and have to do all of these things. They just found ways to give themselves grace and they did what they thought was the right thing to do in the moment that they were doing it, and then the rest of the story unfolded. And it's still a journey.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And that oh, go ahead, Al.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, that and I'm gonna, I'm actually reading I because I I wrote down some notes because this was so important that I I wanted to peg these. Uh, I wrote blown away by our how our framing of complexity was felt and experienced so universally, but in such different ways. The common thread that overthinking stems from some form of fear being wrong, not accepted, not in control. And it ties back to understanding how much isn't in control in our lives. So all we have is our choices and the acceptance of risk uh is ever present. And I mean, that's that's it's what you said, Phil. It's the the each of these stories, and I'm uh there's two I'm gonna talk about specifically before we move on, but um that universal, we're all in this together, we all are gonna do a different version, we're all gonna experience a different version of this. Um, and it's like I I I've had to ask myself this year, I didn't call it overthinking, but I said, Why haven't you executed? And then one of my buddies said to me, He's like, Al, he's like, You you did a marathon this year. I said, What? He's like, Yeah, you ran another because I ran a marathon many, many years ago and never was a runner, and I I I ran a marathon, then I ran in a second marathon, and then I ran 12 marathons, and for 10 years I was unstoppable. I ran, I ran, I ran, I ran. And I said, What do you? I don't get it. He's like, You you did what you said you were gonna do. You recorded a podcast, you started a podcast, you recorded every and you produced every other week. And you and Phyllis and Mark never gave up. He's like, You did a frickin' marathon, and I was like, Oh my god. I was I was like, Thank you. Thank you for that gift, and that's that execution. No overthinking there.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, the thank you for sharing that. I think before you get to your stories that you wanted to highlight, um the other the other piece to the thing that I learned before we move on from this section is and if our guests are listening to this episode, I just want to thank them for their authenticity. You know, they knew us in some form or fashion and in some relationship. They likely knew the two of you. I think both of you brought most of the guests, if not all of them. Um but they didn't know the Yeah, you're all it's because you guys are older. But they didn't they didn't know this podcast because it's new, like me, um and young uh and shiny, like my forehe like my forehead. Uh but But they they they showed up and we say it a lot authentically and they shared vulnerably. And I think what that taught me as an aha this year is that it is safe to show up authentically and vulnerably to situations and and it's it's encouraged to be me versus some sort of an avatar and and there they weren't interviews, we had conversations.

SPEAKER_05:

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And yes, and I think that that was just another another piece to what resonated about this show to me.

SPEAKER_05:

Mark, that is so fricking spot on. Because do you remember in the beginning, we were actually well, that was one of the aha's in the production side of this. Was like Mark and I with our broadcast background, we were we were formulaic. We were concerned about being formulaic, and we ended up being a little formulaic. And somewhere in the distance, there uh I mean in the mish the Michigas of all that, um, we realized that we were having these conversations, we weren't interviewing, and you guys called me out on that. You're like, hey, this one kind of felt like we were interviewing. And I that's what I think people appreciate. That's what I always hear back from people that they appreciate, that they feel like they're just sitting with us. Yeah, which is which is the point. All right, I'm just gonna hit this super quick because I and and again, I I I had an aha moment with every single one of our guests, but uh one of them was with Lori Shore. Uh, it was episode 11, Life's New Normal. Um, she said, I had to learn how to manage the fear so it didn't take away my joy. I will never forget that moment. Uh brought me to tears. Forget the fact that we're you know pathetic and she has a son about with diabetes. Mark, obviously, the personal connection you have. But uh especially this year, this idea that fear was actually stealing my joy. Uh, that was just transformational. Um, another one, and and both of these are your guests, Phil. So kudos to you. Episode five, Toby Kinsel. Power is the rate at which energy is transferred. I'm gonna repeat that again. If you've not heard that episode, power is the rate at which energy is transferred. That threw me away. Right? Yep. I had I had never looked at the how do I put it? I guess the the external visualization of my own overthinking in a way that Toby articulated it. She put a physical structure to this thing we do, and so that I could visualize it. Um she gave energy a framework that I had not connected with in my own life. And I am I am Mr. Positive Energy, you know, and I bring energy and all that. But I'd never looked at overthinking as a as a stealing energy. And and if that's happening, then that means it's transferring to others. And and then we we had that moment together where she was talking about that, and we realized the more we overthink this show, we're actually bleeding that energy into each other. I it was really it was really popping. Did I just say it's really popping? That was good.

SPEAKER_00:

You did.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Did okay.

SPEAKER_05:

No, I just definitely am like 700 years. Hold on. Where's my beeper and my cane? You be popping.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay.

SPEAKER_05:

We just we just lost, we just lost any demo that's below the age of seven days. Thank you. No, thanks. All right, so uh planning and producing was another theme. Like, like as we've been planning and producing this show, what uh Mark, what um what aha did did you have or you want to talk about?

SPEAKER_01:

I'd say it goes back to us when we first recorded the first one or two episodes where I kept watching the clock. Uh and I think the the perfection kills momentum and it killed conversations. And when we decided to become less uh formalaic and just show up, uh we and and we have more of a structure now. Thank you, Phyllis, for for putting together the structure of the shows, but it's open and it's fluid, and it feels it I I can't imagine, I don't I don't think we would have survived had we kept producing this like a radio show versus a conversation. So to to me, um that tone, us showing up, relatability, uh, those are some of the words that come to mind when I when I think about the planning and production. When we think about our shows and what we want to produce and what we want to talk about, it's things that we know are important to our friends, our family, us, and we feel like that's gonna resonate. And and that's a that was a cool aha moment of boy, there are all these topics that we can cover. So that that was some of my learnings this year.

SPEAKER_05:

Phil, can I jump in? Please. Yeah, I I I want to dovetail on that. So I wrote control, uh, trust each show as its own organism that will evolve imperfectly, letting go of quote, helping Mark and Phyllis uh allow them to be their own and not being the solo Joe. I mean, this was a dip, this was a thing. Like I did improv for years, and one of the things I had to learn was having been also an MC and a master of ceremony and been a spokesman and all that. You got to learn how to share, and you gotta learn, and sharing is about giving up control. No, sharing is about sharing control, sharing is about trusting, control is about trusting your partners. And uh it was a huge, huge moment. And and I didn't realize I wrote these as two separate things, but what you just said, Mark, was like, no, they're the same. Let go of the perfect structure. I had no idea yet knew it subconsciously that our mix and blend is so serving of our desire to help each other and and serve others. Folks, uh, this our fellow stallers, you know this about Mark Phyllis and I. The genuine heart that we love other people and that we want to improve and help other people that is behind this show. Um that is why we're still at episode 18 and we're gonna be at episode 118 and 1018. And somehow that has superseded all the technical stuff and the structure, and that trust in each other, allowing us to just do the shit we're doing right now, having this conversation unplanned, has been so beautiful. So, yeah, Mark, man, dude, left punch, right punch, left brain, right brain. I love it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so I'm gonna um take a little uh maybe different take on it. And um I think um that I will say that it is really, in my opinion, because I know I'm getting it, it's my bedtime. I've already discussed that with the two of you. Oh, it's past your bedtime. It is so past my bedtime. Because of the genius, technical planning, processing skills that the both of you bring, we have the freedom, Al and Mark, to do what you just said, just to sit and have a conversation. Because that back end, which I only know because I know the two of you, and what that actually takes to produce a show is being produced so beautifully and with such care. So it's really important to me that our fellow fellow stallers, which it almost makes me want to bust out to a rhyme when I say that, but I won't. Um what? I will.

SPEAKER_05:

I know you my my last aha is uh, and this is wow, this is uh, this is so apropos, man. Um how to not be performer, Al, and to be Alfred Emmerich versus Al Emmerich. And Megan, I'm calling you out. This is this, you you know what I'm talking about. We have a fan of ours named Megan, who I met through uh keynote speaking event. And um but Mark, this also speaks to you. Like when when we were having that special moment driving back from Charleston, South Carolina, um, and I mentioned to you uh a bunch of stuff that was going on. You were like, well, you got to decide who shows up in this relationship or this thing. Is it performer Al or is it you know uh stage Al or is it just Al, this Al. Um we all have our own versions of that, but um, this has been a year of real understanding Alfred Emmerich, who is a different person than Al Emmerich, and they're both beautiful people, and I love them both, but there really is a difference. And it became so apparent because it was tied to that first thing I mentioned about the show producer, you know, the the voice, the broadcaster that you and I were talking about, Mark, and um not being the radio guy, but just being here, and and you and I'm in that I'm here because of you two, because you create that safe space. I would not have gotten there as comfortably, I think. Believe it or not, as much as I spend time in my own brain and head and heart, you all allowed me to to be that those two people synonymously. Um, and um I'm just forever grateful, forever grateful.

SPEAKER_01:

So um, well, that was it's special for all of us when when we show up like we do. Um you know, I'm I'm glad that it impacts you, but it it really does. I I don't want to speak for Phyllis, um, but I I think this this relationship of of showing up and and having these conversations uh impacts us too and helps us understand who who's showing up that day. Um and you know, I think when I when when I look at the shows and we go back and listen to them, you can see which one of us showed up and which version of us showed up that day and what was going on in our own lives. And I think that that's also another cool thing about the production piece was we didn't say, okay, it's production time, put on this character and go in and perform. We had shit days and we still had a record. We had great days and still recorded, and we had family events that we had a workaround and still recorded, and and and that that showed up differently in each show, too. And I think that there's a there's a beautiful piece to that, whatever you call that.

SPEAKER_05:

There were shows there were shows that were recorded later than the person's bedtime, and they were completely psychotically biachi in the beginning, and then they they they just miraculously flipped the switch and became this hugger bear. Right.

SPEAKER_04:

I mean miracles happen on the show. I mean, it really hey, it might be happening tonight. I see it.

SPEAKER_00:

It just might be.

SPEAKER_01:

And Al might not live through the night because Phyllis is gonna drive to Jacksonville and murder him. So no, no, no. No, that take too, it'd take too long. She's she's gonna be asleep.

SPEAKER_00:

But it you know I'm gonna be asleep like and whenever. But isn't like to what you both are saying, isn't it's like so lovely um this notion of being able to show up as we are and do this um without overthinking it. That part does not get complic overcomplicated or complex. And to me, that's been one of the biggest gifts of doing this because it has allowed me to show up here in that way. Um, and it's also allowed me to show up um in other places just as I am without real care or concern.

SPEAKER_05:

Um exclamation point, mic drop.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Speaking of mic drops, um one of the other things we wanted to uh speak to was what is an aha moment we've learned from each other. Now I know we've been I'm sorry, about each other, not from each other. Now we I know we've been talking about these already in in in in a variety of different ways, but um I'm gonna start off here because we just said mic drop. I I I learned Mark, I I did not know how profound, and I'm not being funny, but I know Phyllis is gonna want to make a wrap because because it's it's profound. I wrote profound recapper. Like like Mark is so but seriously, Mark, I you've always been this person that was been able to state things beautifully. You and I were what's the word, Malefluous? No, or Malefluous. Okay, uh, we we both we know how to talk good and rot talk right with pretty words, but I mean, dude, you ever like there is not a show, and then of course there was the drive back from Charleston where you were like, you know, baby Jesus, you know, which is like but seriously, man. So that was like that was it. Um, and then Phyllis, um I've known you since 2013, 12, 15, no, 15, sorry. Um, so 10 years, and never did I I always knew we we adored each other, we respected each other first, we admired each other, then we grew a friendship. But all along that line, I I saw hints of it, but I never saw it coming. And that is you are, I'm gonna say the bad word, you are fucking funny as hell. You are a funny, funny. He's trying to redeem himself. No, no, no. I'm throwing it down, man. Your humor is wickedly shrewd, sharp, funny, and um I I I want your laugh on speed dial when I leave this earth because that's what I want to listen to. Uh, and then lastly, the pride in your growth. Like, we've talked about this on the show, but the aha for me is that I can count on maybe 10 toes and fingers over my my 58 years of living, a situation where I can say, I watched somebody grow and I saw it happen, and it wasn't my child. And your growth in this show from where you were, growth in your confidence, growth in your own expression of your humor, and growth in your confidence that you belong on this show has just been remarkable. And it's been a treat. Yeah, it's been a treat to watch. I mean, the growth in the studio still, I mean, I think I'm still looking at the same pillow that was there seven years ago, seven months, shows ago, whatever.

SPEAKER_00:

In fact, that probably wasn't never gonna get rid of it just because you said it.

SPEAKER_05:

No, yeah, but anyway, that's my that's my aha for you guys. What I what I experienced and and the aha that I've I've I've taken from you. There's something I've learned, but I'm gonna hold off on that. Give you guys mic time here. It's number out of my mouth.

SPEAKER_00:

So I'm gonna jump in because uh yes, I mean uh Mark, like your ability to synthesize everything at the end of a show or sometimes midpoint, like so um profoundly and beautifully, is uh absolutely an aha. But I have like two others. Um, and one is just what a beautiful writer you are and what a beautiful content creator you are. I mean, I I can't like I never saw that coming. I I knew you were gonna be good, but you're really, really, really, really, really, really amazing. And I didn't see that coming. And then I will also say, um your patience, um, I won't speak with about Al, but I will say with me during really hard times of that growth. Um, I I you know, I'm not sure I'll really be ever be able to repay you for that, but you have had some incre you have like been so kind and gracious and patient, um, um, which I genuinely appreciate, particularly when we were first starting out um and and doing this. So um all big like aha's and lovely, lovely things. Um, and Al, uh like I always knew you knew how to do cool stuff, but uh I mean Mark really said it best, your ability to like when I heard the heard the first show, I was like, oh shit, it's good. He's good. I mean, it was just like it and it is amazing um to watch you um do that um is a gift unto itself, and it's a big aha moment. And then I would say too, um I think the coming together for you of so many different things related to the show and not related to sh the show, and your ability and willingness um to articulate that and to keep driving hard even when the road is dark and scary. Um it it's again, it was just a huge um what a gift it is to to be here watching you doing that and being somehow a small part of of that journey.

unknown:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

Also your willingness to your ability-ness. This is why we don't do this after five o'clock. Your ability, like it's so fun to start the show because I never know what you're gonna say, and I really don't know how you do that.

SPEAKER_03:

And neither do I. That's the good part.

SPEAKER_00:

There's that. And Mark and I are always like, What's it gonna be? Yeah, I have ten dollars on green beans. What do you have? Uh right.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I thank you both and and um for for saying what you did. Um what you did, what you did, Al, I you know, starting with you, my aha moments. You know, if you for our our our stallmates, Al and I met in a very interesting way through a dear friend. And I mean, I didn't really know Al uh at all, other than someone who said, You should know this guy. And to to see the talent that you have on so many different levels and and the different abilities you have, uh outside of the show. I I I mean, yes, you you rap or you come up with something at the beginning of the show. I mean, we were having uh you know, Phyllis is yelling at you, you hit record, and then all of a sudden something pops out of your mouth. And it's it's amazing because it's always great and it's always funny. Uh and it and it always relates to the show. And I and I don't know how you do that, and it's it's a wild to. But I've also seen you outside the show. And uh I I I really think that the way that you connect with people Yeah, you you've got a you've got a great voice and and you you can do fun things with it, and that's a cool talent. But your ability to connect with people at an at a heart level is really impressive. Um the events that I've gone to with you and and and not just one-on-one. I think what what people don't see who listen to the show, but maybe they feel it, is your ability to connect with really large groups of people at one time. And I find that fascinating. Like when we went to that MS thing uh event, and you know, there's I don't know, a couple hundred people in the room. I don't know how many people there. It was busy, it was packed, right? But people felt connected to you, and and that's just a very interesting and wild talent. And you bring it to the show, uh, but you also bring but it's also you authentically. That's how you show up. And I I just uh that was that was a neat learning experience to see the different versions of of of that. Uh and then I'll I'll say uh another aha is and more of a thanks, regardless of what you have going on, you have shown up for me on my darkest days with positivity when I knew you're you were struggling to probably get out of bed, but you showed up for me. You've shown up for this show, you've shown up for others that we'll never know about because you won't say it because you you you you are humble, even though you're arrogant. No, I'm kidding. Um I'm just kidding. It's kidding.

SPEAKER_05:

Hey, I am a really good arrogant.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, no, no. I all kidding aside, like you uh just trying to break the tension for a second. You you show up for people fully, even though you have a lot going on. So this has been a tough year for you, but no one would have known if you didn't say it. And so I think that's just a beautiful attribute that I would have never known about you. So it's true.

SPEAKER_05:

Thank you, man.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Um, Phyllis, yeah, I gotta echo I I I obviously just met you this year. Uh uh, well, as long as this show's been going on, right? And all I knew from you was that Al said that you were a person I should know. And the conversations that we've had, the laughter that we've shared, I oh I didn't know you were funny, but you are, uh, but just also brilliant. Like the way that you think of situations, the way that you think up questions, the way that you connect those questions to the the guests that we have and get them to share that's you. And I I really appreciate that about you. And I know you're busy and you show up for this show, and you create outlines and you think through it, and you are probably the most prepared out of all of us showing up on recordings. And I just I really appreciate that. And um, you're wicked smart and funny. Um hell of a cook, too. Oh my gosh. Hell of a cook. Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Who knows?

SPEAKER_05:

Makes a mean means that makes a mean cocktail as well.

SPEAKER_01:

And and I I I just want to I'll end on echoing the growth. I there, you know, when when you had called, and well, since it's vulnerable, vulnerable authentic, you you were like, I don't know that I I can do this show after a couple episodes. And we were like, we're not doing the show without you. There's no way that this this thing happens unless Phyllis is part of it. And to see where you started of like, I don't really know, to you're all in, and I I mean, over seven months, that's incredible. That's incredible. And um, so thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05:

So we we've got one more big kind of like uh we'll call it for lack of a better word, uh, you know, dramatic, emotional, whatever, self-revealing. But before we we do that to close out our show, and Phyllis and Mark do not know that I'm I'm going here with this. So uh we would be remiss if we would were to bypass the opportunity for the final time of the year to step into the stall for the roll-up.

SPEAKER_00:

I knew you were gonna say that.

SPEAKER_05:

That's right. This is the deep questions, ladies and gentlemen. These are the things that the world wants to know. NASA calls me on a regular basis, the FBI. I've been contacted by Sweden. Um, I've been contacted by the Wine Growers Association, and just three months ago, the Electric Landline Association, it still runs landlines for phone calls. Uh, they called me because they wanted to know if they could step into the stall to answer these questions. But I said, no, no, sorry. This is relegated this episode for Phyllis and Mark, and and maybe it's not. So here we go. Um, my first question is the following. Um You are stuck in the stall with all of our folks who have ever been on Facebook, that have ever commented, told you that they like the show, whatever. Anyone that's not been a guest, you are stuck in the stall. And the only way out of the stall is to thank them for one thing, and then you can get out of the stall and go on and live your life, roll those toilet paper, flush away, whatever you want to do. Well, I'll repeat once again, you're stuck in the stall with all of our fans that have ever interacted with us, whether it's through social or just, you know, hey, I listened to the show, blah, blah, blah. And you get to thank them collectively for one thing. What would that one thing be?

SPEAKER_01:

Do we have to name the person? Should we name the person?

SPEAKER_05:

Oh, if you have a person, great. And if it can either be an individual, it could be the collective.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I don't want to leave anybody out, but I do have an individual. So Valerie listens to every episode. The moment you we launch it, and I get a text message. Hey, I'm walking and listening to the episode. So immediately as it gets released, she listens.

SPEAKER_02:

Wow.

SPEAKER_01:

So thank you, Valerie.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you, Valerie.

SPEAKER_05:

And she is a super fan. She's pretty awesome. She shoots it straight. Yep. She's given us feedback. She's uh Yeah. So good. All right, Valerie. It is. All right, Phil, you want to go or you want me to go? What do you want to do?

SPEAKER_00:

I don't know. I think I'm just gonna say what came to mind when you first asked the question and imagine that I would do that. Just imagine. Um and I think this, it's the it's the gift of time because everybody's busy doing a million things, yet people take the time to listen, to listen, to offer feedback, to call one of us and say something, to put it on Facebook, to send a quick text. And that's really cool. And I'm very grateful. Um, I'm very grateful for that. I have a great time doing this, um, but I'm reminded of why we wanted to do this. And so um, yeah, I'll just leave it at that.

SPEAKER_01:

It that is so cool. So I was at a Christmas party the other night. Uh, Angelo, if you're listening, thank you. He was walking out of the car, he's like, Yeah, it takes me 50 minutes or so to get to work, and that's one episode. He's like, I'm racing through all of them. I mean, how how awesome is that? So thank you to everybody who's who's who's out there and and spending time with us in the stall, whether it's uh on breaks, on drives, while you're in the bathroom. But yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, we don't want to know about that, but but that'd be great. Thank you. You know, actually, I have this collective vision. I think this would be cool.

SPEAKER_00:

Um listen in the bathroom.

SPEAKER_05:

Well, not just that. I I want us I'm I'm casting forward a vision of the future where we have this big complexity of toilet paper fan experience, and everybody, we've got like the seats that people are sitting in the audience are little potty seats. Oh, we we will at some point. We will and everybody has their own little roll of toilet paper. Cushioned and needed. Yeah, cushioned. Well, that's that's a that's a big budget. We need to make some money. All right, Alan, it's your turn. Okay, so I have an individual and I have um a collective.

SPEAKER_06:

The individual is gonna laugh.

SPEAKER_05:

He's my um he's my longest time friend. His name is Eric Cardistener.

SPEAKER_06:

And um I've known this guy since I was seven.

SPEAKER_05:

And I don't talk about him a lot. He lives in New York, he's truly one of the most brilliant individuals I've ever met. He's a great author. He writes children's books that are really amazingly powerful, but they're also really truly meant for adults in many ways. Anyway, Eric um Eric said something so simple. He said, Alfie, yep, he calls me Alfie. He's the only person that gets to call me Alfie. He said, Alfie, he's like, I finally Yeah, I know, right? He's like, I finally figured out your show and I understand you. Wow, it all makes sense. I'm so glad that you're doing therapy so publicly.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow.

SPEAKER_05:

And I it it's it was a version of that. The fact that my childhood buddy um is such a fan and gets it to the point, and I'm actually gonna post this picture. Uh this is what I didn't send you guys today in the text. I'm gonna send you. He was at a bar uh and the the the uh the person got gave him a shot in a toilet. It was like a little mini toilet. It's like a little mini toilet shot glass. And he sent me the he sent me the video. Yeah, I will send it to you. He sent it to me. He's like, Al, ow, ow, I just wanted you to know I'm out. And man, this is for you, dude. This is for you. Anyway, so that Eric Carter Stenser, I love you and thank you. Um, but but the other thing is the following, and it's the and it's a simplified, believe it or not, for me, version of what you guys have both said, and that is to you, our stallmates, thank you for your presence. Whether you've done one episode, a half episode, you've listened to them all, you have a busy life, you have other things, but now we're part of your consciousness and you are part of our collective consciousness. So my appreciation is is there, but my aha moment uh is is to to get out of here is to say, to get out of the stall is to say thank you for your presence. So we we took we took we took the uh we took the roll up and we of course brought it back to Sirius. All right. I'm gonna I'm gonna close with two questions for you guys. The first uh the first is um what what have you learned for yours uh most about yourself um uh that that you just love that's happened as a result of this show? And then the second part of that is what are you most excited about that you look forward to in 2026?

SPEAKER_00:

With regard to the show?

SPEAKER_06:

Yes. Yeah, yeah. Like you're like, boom, I can't wait. You can tell that they did not know this was coming.

SPEAKER_05:

What did I learn about?

SPEAKER_00:

And I love that. So I'll I'll start because you know now I'm just losing sleep. Um not gonna get it back. Keeps asking questions. The first question I feel like I've I've I feel comfortable with the like the answer was in the way I've been answering all of the questions. Like, what did I learn about myself? And I feel like I feel like I've talked about that. Um super excited about 2026, one with some of the show topics that we some of the show topics that we have um planned and lined up, and also our approach to some uh guests that might be uh forthcoming. And then um in a perfect world, our plans materialize um uh uh to uh help us uh reach more people and more people reach us at the same time. And I think 2026 will be the year that that happens. And of course, I'm always excited to spend time with the two of you, maybe not at nine o'clock at night. Unless, of course, we're out for drinks and that becomes something different.

SPEAKER_01:

And we end up in a bathroom stall together taking pictures like we did uh in buying a boat. That's exactly right. Let's see, what did I learn about myself? Um so much. Uh I guess we could record for another hour since Phyllis is happy to be here.

SPEAKER_04:

Um it's the marathon. It's the marathon.

SPEAKER_01:

Wake me up when it's my turn. Don't edit out, don't edit out the snoring. Um I I'd say that the the how do I say it's progress in this show has just gotten better because we've been consistent at it. And I think what I've learned is that we didn't have to show up perfect in day one. We just had to show up. And here we are going into season two. What I'm excited about for 2026 is that opportunity to continue to show up, to fight through whatever we're fighting through to get this show done and produced, and more episodes and more guests, and and more thoughtful approach to the things that we overthink and over-complexify in life, and we stay true to our mission, and that what's ever resonated with these fellow stallers that we have continues to resonate, and that it resonates so much that they want to share with their friend network. And we do uh we do reach more more people with with the message of of simplicity.

SPEAKER_00:

Well said.

SPEAKER_05:

You know? Uh not not letting people down that I care about, that I love. Uh, yeah, if you're a therapist, you know, you can call me later, but I got a good one already. Uh and then the other aha has just been that Al is enough. Um, you know, meaning Al uh or Alfred is enough. Don't have to be the performer, just doing this, being us on a public forum is is enough. And it's it's freed me up in my writing, it's freed me up in my keynotes, it's freed me up in so many other places that you guys alluded to. Um so what I'm looking forward to most is uh uh the same thing you guys are. Obviously, specifically, I'm really looking forward to the new guests. I think we're gonna we we we we have a much sharper edge as each show goes on as to what we want to focus on. We're gonna have topics ranging from talking about the complexity of bourbon and wine to uh you know music. Uh we're gonna go deeper into the whole overthinking and uh the fear piece. We've got some we know a lot, and and we're gonna also I'm looking forward to engaging in a different level, both hopefully in person as well as through our social with you, our stallmates who listen to this. Um and so I'd like us to close the show with some shout-outs. First of all, we would be remiss if we didn't mention all of these people. And these are all the guests we've had on the show this year. Um our our fourth episode, Maul Jones, uh Florida's first hip-hop artist. Thank you, Maul, for being literally our first, our first guest in the stall um that that actually got produced because our early episodes was just us. Thank you, Toby Kinsel, uh, who, you know, episode five, all of our uh energy that you you so freely helped us release and and talk about. Um Quinitha Frasier, who just brought this beautiful conversation, not once but twice. Um, I wish we would have aired the part of the very first show. It was so amazing, but but but the second version was about her illuminating career uh as an entrepreneur. So Quinitha Fraser, Gene Goldman, your journey from successful advertising executive to finding joy in life's journey. Thank you. Um also along the way, we obviously had a number of shows that that we did ourselves, but we're thanking our guests, and that includes Lori Shur, who I already referenced, episode 11, season one, back on September 23rd, sharing life's new normal. Make sure you check out her book, Lori Shur. Great, great, great, great book. Um Tyler Schultz, Blood Lies and Toilet Paper, episode 13, October 21st. Tyler's story really takes the hard decisions in life about values and what matters to you and makes them very, very simple. So thank you, Tyler Schultz, for for being just one of our guests who stepped into the stall. Um, Ron Ben Ziv back early December. Ron was actually the very first person we recorded. All right. We recorded with Ron long before we actually went to production, and he had a great show, but we were all over the place. And we asked him, would you come back again? And this time we want to talk about the focus of entrepreneurship from a different direction than we had discussed with Quinitha. And Ron was there, and and so to all of you, thank you for being our guests. Thank you for stepping into the stall. Um, around the horn, final note of thanks before we wrap this in the next 60 seconds or so, Mark.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh, I just I can't put it down to one. I I I hope everybody has enjoyed the show this year, and we hope that you come back for season two starting in January. So thank you. Phil?

SPEAKER_00:

Ditto, and just sincere thank you.

SPEAKER_05:

Awesome. I will say the thing that we always say when we come to the conclusion of this. Please, if you would, share with all of your friends. You know we're on Facebook, we're on LinkedIn, we have our YouTube page, right, Mark? Okay, we're not blowing that stuff up yet, but we have the Instagram, we will have Instagram too, and and all that thing. But right now it's mainly LinkedIn, YouTube. Invite other people into the stall, make it a new year's resolution, give the gift of of simplicity, and uh always remember when you sit in the stall, there's only one place to call. This is the complexity of toilet paper.

SPEAKER_04:

Did you take toilet paper?

Head Shot

Al Emerick

Host
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Mark Pollack

Host
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Phyllis Martin

Host