Relearning Yourself: Inside The Stall Part 3 - Mark

Ever had a season where you look in the mirror and feel like you’re staring at a stranger? Mark goes there, and the honesty hits fast. He tells a story about how the mirror used to reflect possibility, then slowly filled up with history, and how the years leading into 2025 brought a harder realization: he didn’t know what he liked, what he wanted, or even who he was anymore.

We pull apart what that does to your day-to-day life. When you don’t feel grounded in identity, you start living like an avatar, performing instead of being. Suddenly every choice becomes a mental marathon: the car you buy, the room you paint, the hobbies you say yes to, the version of yourself you try on to fit the moment. We talk about why that drives overthinking, how self-judgment keeps the cycle running, and what it looks like to replace perfection with experimentation and self-compassion.

Then the conversation widens into the real-life stuff that forces reinvention: divorce, selling the home where your kids grew up, moving, job upheaval, a new role, a new relationship, and parenting as your kids become adults. Mark shares the tools that steady him, especially renewed faith, prayer, and the practice of handing over what he can’t carry alone. The takeaway isn’t “everything happens for a reason” wrapped in a bow, it’s something more usable: acceptance, growth, and the courage to become the version of you that fits today.

If you’ve been navigating life transitions, identity shifts, anxiety, or decision fatigue, listen now and share this with someone who needs a little hope. Subscribe, leave a review, and tell us: what part of your life are you learning to let change?

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:01

And I wish we could go back to a time when things weren't so complicated.

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Welcome to the complexity of toilet paper, the podcast that dives into the everyday moments where we overthink, hesitate, or just get the motivation. Through honest conversations, unexpected insights, and a whole lot of humor, your hosts Phyllis Martin, Mark Pollock, and Al Emmerich are here to help you roll with it and make your life a little less complicated. One conversation at a time. Right, dude. The beauty of this is the simplicity. Speaking of which, it's time to enter the stall. Put the lid down, or not, depending. Get comfortable and roll with it.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Oh, what in not, dear friend? It's really quite simple.

Radio Call Ins In A Modern World

SPEAKER_02 0:58

This is the complexity of toilet paper! Hey there, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Complexity of Toilet Paper. This is a podcast with two former radio guides. And we were just talking pre-show, because that's the name for broadcast language, about radio and call-in shows. And we were very topically asking the question: Hey, have you ever participated in a call-in? Now I know some of you are probably saying, What's radio? I get that completely. Because you can't call into YouTube, can you? God forbid you need to put in a customer service ticket. Good luck getting that. Either way, our question today is as you enter the stall, do you have a call? And if you do, we're gonna give it our all to answer your questions here on the complexity of toilet paper.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

You know what's funny about the whole thing is we don't even have a number. So no one's even calling us.

SPEAKER_05 2:00

Do you want me to call yourself up for fun?

SPEAKER_00 2:02

You could. No one I can say, you're caller number 95.

SPEAKER_05 2:05

And I'd go, I won.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

You just won backstage passes.

SPEAKER_05 2:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

My uh my I have a friend named Ted, and Ted asked me, Ted is 75, no, 77. Um, Ted is totally I I I know Ted from way back when I lived in Arizona, and um he he is a total techno, was it technophile, meaning they don't they're no they're what does it mean when they're anti-tech? I I don't know. Anti-tech. Technophile, I think that's the term. Anyway, he's anti-tech. He's anti- No, Phyllis, you're not anti-tech. I mean, he literally doesn't he literally just got an email when he turned 70. He never had an email. How do you live this life without having anyway? And it's AOL, right?

SPEAKER_05 2:50

Ted asked I'm kind of feeling like very peacefully at this point.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

Ted asked me the other day, show your podcast. Can I call in to the show?

SPEAKER_05 3:00

Oh, I wish you could. I wish he could. I wish people could call in.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

He could actually do it. We can call him and we just have to do it live. We have to do a completely live. Okay. Not live to live to the internet.

SPEAKER_05 3:15

We could do it. I would do a live show. I would do live.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Yeah, we could do a Facebook live or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Ooh. Wow. That would be fun to do a Facebook Live recording. Let's do it. Of the show. Okay. People call in. All right. Um, they can message in. Yeah. They can message.

SPEAKER_05 3:33

Same as calling in.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Or or we could give them uh we could give them our a phone number. But you know, we're gonna have to give away merch like we used to. So at that point, we're we're gonna need some stuff.

SPEAKER_05 3:44

No, no, no, no. You gotta call and win. Caller number five, caller number ten, you get a shirt, no cow.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

We start with we start with they get to call in so they can hear themselves on the radio, on the show. And get a shirt. And get a hat. You're a bunch of merch. Merch. You're a bunch of merchandise who's all right. Well, hi. Uh welcome to the complexity of toilet paper. My name is Al Emmerich. And I'm Mark Pollock.

SPEAKER_05 4:17

And I am Phyllis Martin.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

No, Phyllis, you need to give us give us your radio voice. Let's hear, let's hear. Hi, I'm Phyllis Martin. Go ahead. Go.

SPEAKER_05 4:27

Three, say you're Mark Pollock again, and then I can do it. Somebody has to do Mark first.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

Go, Mark.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

And I'm Mark Pollock.

SPEAKER_05 4:38

She can't do it. I can't do it. Okay. Yes, she can. And I'm hey. And I'm Phyllis Martin.

SPEAKER_02 4:47

Ooh, I'm Phyllis Martin. No, Mark, don't you ruin that moment. That was good.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

That was good.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

I need to soak that audio between my ears here.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

Dang.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

There Delilah.

unknown 5:01

Just kidding.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

Delilah just Delilah just became a vegan witch or something.

SPEAKER_05 5:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

Ouch. This is literally the third installment of three, which would mean we are actually at the conclusion of our in-depth behind the scenes in the potty stall convo with our third of three partners, Mark Pollack. So if you have not heard the other two shows, that's okay. Many weeks, maybe a month and a half or so ago, we all had a conversation about well, um, it's been not just a year, it's been almost 25 episodes. And 2025 brought a lot of challenges and struggles, uh, and joy and learning for the three of us. But we felt um not a responsibility, we just felt a desire to say, hey, you know, we need and want to share more with you about what we've been experiencing on our own journey towards complexity. Um and um I don't know, the gosh, I mean, we've really learned a lot. Phyllis, you know, opened up um, you know, about the the challenges that she had and she faced. Um I I I I set the trail of tears for Al. Um and and now Mark Mark gets to step into the stall. Um again, if you know anything about this show, you know that this is about the truth. This is our truth, this is the truth of our guests, if there is one. Um, but we've made a commitment to simplify, help try to simplify your life one conversation at a time. And um, whether it's creativity or comedy or uh, you know, telling the truth or you know, working with type 1 diabetes, everything's on the table. But why not put ourselves on the table too? And that's really what this is. Um so I want to thank you for joining us. Thank you for stepping into the stall with us. A little bit of uh uh a break from the somewhat typical format, but at the end of the day, it's still the same message, which is hey, let's get to know each other a little bit better. Um, so Mark. So, now you've had the benefit of Phyllis and I peeling back the layers of our own brain, skin, heart, and soul. So, can we trust you to do the same today?

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Yeah, I mean, I've got nothing going on, so it was all good. There's the show. Nothing happened last night. Nothing happened.

SPEAKER_05 7:50

Nothing happened.

The Mirror Story And Lost Identity

SPEAKER_02 7:51

Past couple years have been a cakewalk for you. Give me a surfboard and a skateboard, and I was cruising, Marcus. Uh man, I was cruising. So I I'd Mark, I'd like to start by just simply asking you one very direct and blunt question. Um what is it that was on the table for you in 2025 before we even start talking about specifics? What landed on the table for you when it comes to the the uh the stuff, the junk, good, bad, and indifferent?

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Yeah. Well, you know, thankfully, to your point, I had you and Phyllis to go first. And so there's a benefit in going last because it gave me some time to think about it. And uh so I actually put pen to paper and instead of my normal off the cuff conversation, um, I kind of wrote something out. And so I thought I would I would share, and it's kind of a a brief little story. Can I can I do that to answer your question?

SPEAKER_05 9:01

Gosh, that's I mean I'm going last next time.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Yeah. So so when when I was a kid.

SPEAKER_05 9:12

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

When I was a kid. Oh, this is real. Yeah. Yeah. He's going. This is real. This is this is happening.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

Okay. I thought you were joking, like once upon a time. I could.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

I could. But no, I really mean it. Uh, I I kind of I kind of thought of it as a story. You know, I I thought maybe folks uh listening would would get more out of out of a story versus just here's here's the thing. So um when I was a kid, I would look into a mirror and I would see possibility staring back at me, right? Um not certainty, just possibility. Um, a thousand versions of who I could be and what I could become. I used to tape myself, uh, coming up with characters. I saw myself on television. Uh, there was a point where I, you know, could see myself as a doctor, just a million different things that um that I could be. So paths, energy, forward momentum. And the mirror at that point in my life didn't really reflect who I was, but it reflected who I could be. And so as life moved on, the mirror changed, right? It started holding more than just who I could be. It now started holding history. And I could see as I got older the past becoming part of my facial features. Um, the decisions that I made, the lessons that I learned, the responsibilities, the laughter, um, the pain, the happiness, the joy, the confusion, all of that um was kind of was the history that was staring back in the mirror at me, but I still saw the future too. So plans, goals, next mountain to climb, next thing I wanted to do, then next thing I wanted to become. And then um you know, so it was easy. The mirror was kind of like a timeline. Here's my past, here's my future, and here's what it's doing to me. But but between the years of of probably 2022, 23 through 25, when I when I looked into the mirror, uh I didn't actually know who the person looking back was anymore. And that was both physically and kind of existentially. Um I didn't see possibility. Um, all I saw was history. And I would look in the mirror and and look at the eyes looking back at me and wonder, well, who's that guy? I I don't know who he is. And it was a strange experience because throughout life, um, it was pretty easy to look and say, oh, that's who I am, and you know, maybe I'm just getting older. Um, but to to look in that mirror and say, I don't know what I like. I don't know what I enjoy doing, I don't know what I enjoy eating, I don't know what I enjoy where I enjoy going, I really don't know what I want to do. Um it was kind of looking back at like looking at a complete stranger. So to answer your question, um it was the realization of the man in the mirror. I didn't know who he was.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

That is no small reflection. Wow. I mean Damn you articulate stuff.

SPEAKER_05 12:41

Well he had a chance to write it down.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

I did. I did.

SPEAKER_05 12:45

So I kind of you know he takes it mark, I'm teasing you.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

No, no, I did. I did. It was definitely helpful. Here's my question. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

And I am not shedding, I'm not being light, but did you at all when you had this thing and you wrote it, start like singing?

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Ooh, I'm the man in the man.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

I did too. How did you not? Hey, hey, let me tell you. Hey, hey, to the we talked about radio call-in. Call in right now. If you're singing that song in your head, right? Finish these lyrics. All right, so that is a powerful segue into next. And for that, Phyllis, yeah, so I put the plunger in your hand.

SPEAKER_05 13:28

Yeah, okay. Oh, dirty. Um, so Mark, with that kind of as a um like a foundation as you are in it like coming into early adulthood or adulthood. Um I feel like there are two questions. How how did that period of your life, that kind of transition from possibility to stranger, um impact the way that you approach um the world? And probably better said, how did that become additive to overthinking or making things more complex um than they have to be? Part A. And then part B is um for whatever you're willing to share um as it pertains to you know 2025. Um, how how did that impact your maybe initial reaction um to the thing, right? Um and then um how you ultimately um responded to that?

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Uh so the first part of the question say the first part of the question again.

SPEAKER_05 14:51

So how did that like it seems like as you were coming into adulthood, yeah, you had this like, I'm looking at a stranger, I don't see possibility anymore, um, I don't know who I am, I don't know what I like. How did that how did that maybe play into the trajectory um that we've talked about a lot about really over-complexifying things or complicating things?

Wearing An Avatar And Overthinking

SPEAKER_00 15:14

Well, I appreciate you saying coming into adulthood, because in it, you know, I was already an adult in the 2020s, but um I think where the complexity and the overthinking came in, and and and probably a lot of people can relate to this, is um I kind of putting on an avatar. I think avatar 15 is coming out at this point, right? And so um uh you know, they go in and and they put on these these bodies that aren't theirs. And I I think the overthinking is because you don't know who you are and what you like, you kind of make shit up. And and and so you're not authentic. And so when you're not authentic and you're just trying on all of these different, these, these different outfits, um, you have to really think about all of the implications and think about how I'm gonna talk and think about what I'm gonna do. And so everything becomes a thought. So instead of acting as your natural self, you're really acting as an actor in a play. And that's kind of what I felt like was there was not a script, it was improv, but I wasn't necessarily I I could be anybody, and I was anybody I wanted to be. So that that's the overthinking because there's it's it's just not simple.

SPEAKER_05 16:29

It's do you think Oh, go ahead, Al.

SPEAKER_02 16:31

Do you think that is a um response to all the loss when you were a kid that kind of cycled back?

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Uh it could be. I I think it's you know, I think I've processed through most of that. I I think where where it was was other things in my life. So, you know, uh Al, you sent a video the other day, and and I think that this was partially the the inspiration for for how to articulate where I am. At different points in my life I could identify as something, right? So when I was younger, I didn't really identify as as there was just all those possibilities. But you know, later in life you identify as a husband or you identify as a dad, you identify as an employee, you identify as a friend, uh a brother, uh those types of things. But when when all that kind of gets mixed up and turned around, um that I think that's that's that's where it comes from. I think it's more recent uh than it than it is the the past. Now the past influences I think how you react to it. It's it's the lens that you look through, uh, but it's new stuff, not old stuff. And then and then Phyllis, what was your second part of your question? I'm sorry, I'm I'm a one question at a time person.

SPEAKER_05 17:53

What?

SPEAKER_00 17:54

I know.

SPEAKER_02 17:55

No, don't don't apologize. Phyllis took the show, Complexity of Toilet Paper and did exactly that with that question because I wasn't quite sure either. So go for it.

SPEAKER_05 18:09

I don't think that's on me. I think that's on the two of you. But we will move right along. The second part of that question was um how um those experiences, and now that you've even explained it more, like having an avatar on all the time impacted your um initial reaction to some of the things that happened to you in 2025 and then how you overcame that.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

Overcoming it. I don't know that that I'm fully aware yet. Uh so it impacts those because again, I don't think you make uh you don't make decisions based on a knowledge of yourself. So I I'd relate it like this. Let's say you just made a new friend and they invited you to their birthday party, right? And you've only known them for maybe a couple of months, but but you know, you've got a good enough friendship where they invite you to a birthday party and you feel obligated to buy them a gift, and you stand and walk around a store for hours not knowing what to buy them. So you just kind of pick something that you think maybe you would like or you think that they would like. Uh, that's kind of the decision making. So so when I'll give you an example, I needed to buy a new car. And so I'm like, okay, well, what what do I like? And so I drove all these cars and I bought one, and I drove it for about four months, and I'm like, nope, I don't like this car. I think I need to get rid of it. So I got rid of it, and I got a different car because I made a decision based on something that actually just totally wasn't me. And and then um I uh would uh paint a room in the house, or I would buy I bought a sofa and I had that for a while, and I had that maybe two months, and I I thought, I don't really like this sofa. So I got rid of it and I got another new sofa. So it was it was all of these trials. I you know my friends of mine would be like, Oh, do you want to go play golf? And I'd go play golf because I used to like to play golf. I'm not very good, but I enjoyed it, and uh I don't actually really like playing golf. And then you want to play tennis? Sure, I'll I'll play tennis. I actually don't really like tennis. Um and so it's it's all of these decisions that you make whether to do something or buy something or go somewhere. I don't really like that. So it's it's it's just it's weird. Because old me would have liked all of those things.

Seeing Possibility And Practicing Grace

SPEAKER_02 20:38

I just I mean that is so beautifully vulnerable. I don't even know how else to say it. Thank you for that, Mark. Because um what I think you've done is you've sounds like you've given yourself the grace to to not judge those decisions. Because that's what we're doing, right? I mean, we beat the hell out of ourselves because we're judging our decisions. That I mean, no decision no decision is forever. Like unless you, you know, choose to, God forbid, kill yourself or something, right? There's there's no absolutes. There's there's the action, and then there's what you revisit about that action, and then how you deal with the revisiting. I mean, in our own rights, all of us have been talking about this. Phyllis had her version, I had my version. But the difference is that like you have to first be willing to to look at the reflection. And so when you look at the reflection today, what's different? Not like tactically different, but like when you approach them that reflection, what is different for you now? Like because that's that's the rub that people are gonna say, Well, God, I wish I wish I could forgive myself for that, or I wish I could let go of that, or yeah, I I can see myself not. Thinking of myself that way. Like what's different for you now? Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 22:06

Yeah, it it does. I I I think there's probably a couple of things that are that that are different. And and one is that grace to be okay with being at a point in my life where I realized I I don't I don't know certain things. And that's okay. Um and and I'm okay with knowing that whatever I like today may be different in 20 years. And and and that's o okay too. Um when I look in the mirror today, what is different is I see possibility again. And I see hope and I see uh a new future. And so i it's not as clear uh as I would like it to be, but I also know it may never be clear, and so I'm okay with that. And I'm okay with trying new things and saying I don't like it. And trying new things and saying, I actually really do like that. Um surrounding myself with with new friends, surrounding myself with um new activities, uh, surrounding myself with um uh I I have a a new job. Uh so it's it's just everything is is different. Uh but it is it is very interesting to look in the mirror, and I still look in the mirror and sometimes think, who is that guy? So I I don't know if that answers your question, but uh I've not arrived as as far you know, and like, oh, there I am.

Faith As A Tool For Peace

SPEAKER_02 23:51

Yeah. What what are the like when I when I spoke, I I talked about uh Tony Robbins, I talked about Brendan Burchard, I talked about journaling. What are the if any, what are the tools or what are the the mechanisms you've used along the way, if any at all to kind of get you to a point where you can see kind of more clearly and more forgivingly?

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Um I would say number one is my my faith. So um I was born and raised Catholic. Uh I went to Catholic school and I and I I followed and I I feel like I was Christian-esque. Um, but I don't know that I was I was all in. And I think over the past couple of years, uh well, I know over the past couple of years I've rediscovered um my faith and I've become more prayerful, I've become more interested in learning more and understanding more. I've uh given now parts of what I couldn't handle to God and just said, you know, I I I can't do this by myself and I don't know anybody else that's gonna help me, so I I need I need you to be with me through this. Um you know, I I talked in earlier shows uh about you know having faith early because of what happened with with David, my brother, and passing, and always felt like he was my guardian angel. But that renewal probably came about two years ago. And since then I I feel more at peace, and not that I don't have fear, and not that I'm not scared, and not that I don't worry about stuff, but at the end of the day, um I I do know that that it has it brought me closer uh in in my in my faith. And I'd say that's been the best tool. Um I think the the ability to come onto a show and be part of this has definitely helped me look in that mirror at the past of what I wanted to be and given me hope that this is something that I can continue to do and kind of scratch that that itch of of broadcasting, but also maybe helping others. Like that, I I like that that service, I know that sounds weird, but that relatability, that that vulnerability, that authenticity that I think the three of us bring, I I I feel as if based on what some people have told us that this show helps. Um they feel like there's another person out there that relates, and um and and and that's and that's that's beneficial. But I'd say those two things really is is uh that yeah, I I'd say my faith is is the number one thing that has pulled me through throughout my entire life.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

So um can I just say real quickly that I love our show? No, I uh I please I do not if you're listening to this and this maybe this is the first time you're jumping in, this is not like self-grandgrandizement. Umgrandizement. It's it's like it's such a beautiful thing to have these types of conversations. Forget now in this time. It's like I'm sure people were having these conversations eons ago, right? They just wasn't a podcast for it to be shared with. Um, but that's part of the challenge is having the time to have these conversations with with yourself, but also with others. Yeah. And I'm just listening to you, and I'm going, wow, this man just told the world about his intimate connection to God and faith and and what that means to him. Yeah. And I mean, I think that's it's so weird. The dichotomy of our show is the complexity combined with I mean, all three of us are think like deep, deep, but wow. Anyway, I just God, I just I just love where we are, and and I'm so appreciative that that you feel safe enough with us to to to drown out any fears or concerns, uh, but also so confident and comfortable with yourself to say that publicly.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

I I thank you. I'm I'm I'm I'm proud to be a Christian. I'm I'm proud to have a relationship with with Christ. He has saved me so many times when I don't deserve it, and the grace uh that I if if I could just give myself the grace that uh the small percentage of grace that he gives me, uh I would be I would be a far better off person. So I'm I'm I'm I'm I I'm I'm thankful that I'm here. I'm only here because of uh of of that. I I I truly believe that. Um but yeah. So but yeah, it it is it is it is great to be in a space mentally and and physically and and surrounded by by you two to be able to to say it, say it without without without fear, without anything.

SPEAKER_02 29:29

So you you let's let's let's talk about the road of 25 and an arrival at 26, right? And and you you I I'm gonna I'm gonna put this out there so you can shut me down and put me in time now. Or we can edit this shit out. But um, all right, so 2025, you you have uh a great new relationship that enters your life. You have a new job. Uh you and I both mirrored some pretty rough uh challenges where we were like wondering about what was this future. Yeah. Um, you we've talked about unfinished business and so many of the the creative things that you want to do. Yep. So I I I want to ask you the following question. When you when you look at what you've learned, like what did the new relationship experience teach you? What did what did arriving with this new role teach you specifically? And I'm talking specifically, relationship. And then Mark, the third question is how have you quieted the complexity of all these things you still want to accomplish?

SPEAKER_00 30:37

So a lot happened, right? That you you mentioned I the end of 24, I've been in this house a year and a half. I sold a I I got a divorce um a while back, um sold a home that my kids were raised in, got a new home. Um my job changed. Uh they were kind of reorganizing how they wanted to do business, and my my role kind of kind of disappeared. And so all of those uh my son was going off to college, uh, and we talked on the show with Lori eight days before he left for college. He got diagnosed with type one diabetes. Um uh I had um yeah, just a number, a number of things that just kept piling up. And so uh what did they teach me? I I think um the selling of the house and moving was that that was a chapter and I have great memories there, and I needed to let it go. I wanted to hold on to that house. I wanted to hold on to the those things because the kids' memories are there, uh, but it wasn't the right thing to do. So moving into this new house taught me that um I can still hold on to the memories of of them being little and running around, but create new ones here. Um the new relationship taught me that I don't have to dishonor my old relationship. Um I I can I can just set myself um in in this new one being who I am today and and that I can I I can be loved. I I think going through a divorce, you think that you're gonna get to a point where no one's gonna like you, no one's gonna ever want to be with you again, you're gonna just, you know, die alone in some old age home at some point, right? And um I think what it taught me is that I I I am lovable by another person, and and and um I think that that's that's uh an amazing thing. And and it taught me that you can both give love and get love again. Um the job, yeah, I I'm reminded by that all the time. They're so temporary, right? They're it's I love my new job. I have uh amazing responsibility that they have given me. I love everything about it. The people are fantastic. Um, but like everything, uh right, you know, that things could change. I I hope they don't, but but I have realized that um that doesn't define who I am. It's a part of who I am, but it is doesn't define me. And so I should take it for what it is, I should give it everything that I have and show up, but I don't have to I don't have to wear that as my identity uh fully. Um it's just a part of it. Um with the kids, uh, you know, uh they're they're growing up. My daughter's 17, my son's 20, uh, they're making adult decisions. Um's in college, Harrison's in college, Michaela is is uh junior high school. Um my relationship with them is changing. And what I've learned from that is that I can change with that relationship, and I can be the dad that they need today, not the dad that sat and played Legos, right? Like there was a time for that, and I miss that. Um, but I don't I don't need to look in the mirror and go, oh, I'm gonna be the dad who plays Legos. They don't want to play Legos anymore with me, but they do want to have adult conversations with me, they do want to do things with me. It's just in a new place. So I I think my story for us and for our listeners is that there is a tomorrow. Um there there is a a new version that's still authentically you, but you have to grow up with the situation. And and that's and that's what I think I was holding on to. Uh, and I wanted to identify with this stuff in the past. I was looking in the mirror, like, ooh, I want to be that person again. I'm not. And and that's why we have to cherish each moment because now I I need to graduate into this next thing.

SPEAKER_02 34:56

You dropped a mic drop. Phil, I know that you had to have heard this. Well, I know you physically heard it, but the relationship's gonna change, and I have to change with it. Like, God, is that not amazing?

SPEAKER_05 35:11

Yeah, I think so much, Mark, of what you're saying. Um, and we talk about this a lot, I'm putting in the pocket of growth. And that can be really difficult and painful, and you don't know it at the time. The lessons come as you as one keeps looking and as one has the courage to keep trying and figuring things out. And I think um it's perfectly natural to in that process make things more complex, uh, not maybe not consciously or overcomplicate things or overthink things. But at the end of the day, um it just your story is one where you've stayed on a particular path, it led by, I think, your faith, like your deep commitment and faith that's allowed you to explore all of these other places and spaces and ways to be that have landed you exactly where we all are in this exact moment, which is perfectly lovely.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Well, I thank you. I I think what it has taught me, 2025 has taught me more than anything else, and and you just really said it, is I am where I am supposed to be. And to look in the mirror and realize this is this is where I'm supposed to be. Those things that have happened that I have gone through, which are not by any means unique, right? Uh I'm sure all of our listeners have experienced either all, some, and especially more than I have. I'm very blessed. Um, but what I what I have realized is that all of that brought me to this point. And I don't understand why. And I probably will never understand why. Um, but it's okay. And I'm I I I think when I look in that mirror now to answer your question earlier, Al, I think a a better answer is I I see the version of me that is supposed to be seen today.

Memento Mori And Remembering What Matters

SPEAKER_02 37:20

And I think it's that acceptance that we so struggle with as people, as human beings, is and that's you know, um the um the video that you were talking about uh previously was you know the the passing of um um Vanderbeek. Yeah. Jane James, right? Vanderbeek, yeah. And uh the beautiful, beautiful video, which we'll uh we'll actually drop it in the show notes. Uh probably of course so many people have seen it. Um and he he talks about being an actor and all these things he thought he was supposed to be, and all these things he was supposed to be doing from a father to this, and the only thing he needed to really uh do is is be uh for him, you know, uh son of God and and and to be good to other people, which of course ties uh made me when I when I heard that immediately, Phyllis, I thought about we are human beings, not human doings, which I to to this day is one of my favorite quotes that you've you've ever said, and you've dropped a lot of bombs on this show for sure. Um but but even um and I would encourage people to go look at um the the Eric um the gentleman who passed uh right around the recording worship. Eric Dane, oh my god, Eric Dane's video to his daughters. Um and like somebody the other I won't even go negative on this, somebody the other day was like, oh, it was shot by FedEx uh Netflix, whatever shut the F up. It's it was it was a genuine conversation this man had. Um and again, we'll drop that in the show notes as well. But he he's the the life, but damn it, so much good stuff is wasted. Not wasted, so much of that knowledge should be experienced before we get to the point where we're dying. And that's what I love about what what you what we're sharing here and what you're saying, Mark, is is these are life lessons that we need to we need to step into on a daily basis. This awareness, this embracement. But you can't get that's the that's the dichotomy. You can't get there unless you've felt the pain. You can't get there unless you've had the loss. You you can't speed that up, right?

SPEAKER_00 39:53

You can't, and and quite honestly, we have short memories, right? So even if you do experience, I mean, how many times at at this we've all gone to a bunch of funerals and and you see people you have it and you're like, oh my gosh, I haven't seen you forever. We gotta have coffee, you know. I I love catching up with you, it's great. You never see them again, right? Maybe the next wedding, next year. So it's it's we have short memories, so it's a constant reminder of uh, you know, um what is it? Uh uh Memento Mori Tempest Fugit. Uh life is short, remember death. It's Latin. Uh momentum. Uh life is short, remember death. And and it's it's uh it it's uh it's it's uh it's it is what it is, right? Just you gotta remember that this is a short little blip in time. Uh do the do the things. Um and it's it's all gonna be okay. It really is. Hey Phyllis.

SPEAKER_05 41:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 41:04

Note to us never play trivial pursuit or any other games with Mark because our asses will get killed. I'm not that smart.

SPEAKER_05 41:13

Unless we talk about things that happened in the 70s and then we can win.

SPEAKER_02 41:16

Oh, that's right, because he's a child. I don't know anything that happened. Mark's still in the womb.

SPEAKER_00 41:23

Yeah, yeah. You'd have to start with uh, let's see, mid-80s.

SPEAKER_02 41:29

Mid-80s, I don't understand. We've gone down, we've gone down this road. We've gone down this road. We're yeah, uh I need to go take my Geritol.

SPEAKER_05 41:36

Oh, do they still make Geritol?

Advice To Your 30 Year Old Self

SPEAKER_02 41:38

I don't know. I know that I used Pager again the other day and I immediately kicked myself because the person was like, huh? I'm like, nah, nah, never mind. Never mind. Never mind. Yeah. Doctors use them still, by the way. Um so, Mark, what you've dropped nuggets and bombs of mic drops and wisdom. But I mean, like, if you could go back and and and give your 30 self, 30-year-old self advice.

SPEAKER_05 42:04

Mark asked you that.

SPEAKER_02 42:06

Yeah. So you know, you're where you are, you've you've had this journey, the mirror is is clear and fresh. Um, what's your advice to your 30-year-old self?

SPEAKER_00 42:22

You're gonna be able to do some things I can't tell you about yet, but you're gonna have to experience some shit first. So buckle up, it's gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_03 42:34

Well said. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

That's what I would tell myself.

SPEAKER_05 42:45

That one is like uh you brought him to tears.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

He did. He did. Like genuinely. Shit, we have to end the show now.

SPEAKER_05 42:59

All right, we're done now.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

Because that's a mic drop, and I'm crying. We can end here.

SPEAKER_05 43:03

We can end here. It's a good looking.

SPEAKER_01 43:05

Are you guys okay with that? Yeah. Yeah.

Gratitude And Closing Moments

SPEAKER_02 43:07

Okay. Ah, of course. I don't want to end the show though. I don't want to do the this this. You guys do it.

SPEAKER_05 43:13

Oh, Mark, you have to do it because you know I don't do it. No, Phyllis, you do it. Uh but let me say this, Mark. Thank you so much for writing a story, telling a story, um being fully transparent, not being an avatar. Um thank you.

SPEAKER_02 43:30

Yep. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

You are welcome. This is the complexity of toilet paper.

SPEAKER_03 43:40

Did you say toilet paper?