The Recruiting Conundrum: Why Post And Pray Is Not A Strategy

Recruiting can be complex without being miserable, but most of the pain comes from the parts we choose to overcomplicate. We sit down with recruiter and speaker Blake Babcock to talk about why hiring feels stuck for both sides: employers drowning in irrelevant resumes and candidates convinced they have to apply to 200 jobs just to get noticed.

We dig into the real mechanics of talent acquisition: who actually owns recruiting, what a sane hiring process looks like, and how the right tools can help or hurt. Blake breaks down the “post and pray” trap, why job titles and job descriptions quietly sabotage results, and how one simple change can flip an applicant pool from useless to aligned. Along the way, we compare recruiting to dating, because the same rule applies: a clear strategy beats a frantic shotgun approach every time.

We also zoom out to the job search itself, especially for students and early-career professionals. Blake shares blunt, helpful advice about first jobs, realistic expectations, and why networking often beats online applying when you want real conversations and real opportunities. If you care about hiring, HR, recruiting strategy, LinkedIn outreach, or finding a better job without losing your mind, you’ll walk away with practical moves you can use immediately.

Blake can be reached via email: BBabcock@staffsol.com or cell: 330-690-1575; as well as on LinkedIn. His Instagram handle is @Blake_Babcock and company website is https://staffingsolutionsenterprises.com/

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Transcript

Welcome To The Stall

SPEAKER_00 0:01

And I wish we could go back to a time when things weren't so complicated.

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Welcome to the complexity of toilet paper, the podcast that dives into the everyday moment where we overthink, hesitate, or just get documented. Through honest conversations, unexpected insights, and a whole lot of humor, your hosts Phyllis Martin, Mark Pollock, and Al Emmerich are here to help you roll with it and make your life a little less complicated. One conversation at a time. Right, dude. The beauty of this is the simplicity. Speaking of which, it's time to enter the stall. Put the lid down or not, depending. Get comfortable and roll with it. Oh, what is not, dear friend? It's really quite simple. This is the complexity of toilet paper.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

They were four individuals. They were on a journey. A journey of discovery. At first they said, Where's the map? And then they realized they didn't have one. Where's the GPS? They couldn't even spell it. And so they ventured forward. Four individuals. Two that knew each other, three that knew each other, one that only slightly knew the other, but two that didn't know the other one very well. If you're lost, it's because we don't have the GPS. But that's how we start every episode. No roadmap. Just some toilet paper, a toilet, a potty, and a great conversation. Welcome to the complexity of toilet paper.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

You never disappoint, ever.

SPEAKER_04 1:51

Can I get even a golf clap for that?

SPEAKER_00 1:53

I said you never disappoint.

SPEAKER_04 1:55

Thank you. You did. You did. Blake, thank you. Thank Oh, I heard that. I heard that. Hi. Uh Blake, welcome to the complexity of toilet paper. Um we don't rehearse the open, and that is uh evidence that you just heard.

SPEAKER_05 2:11

Because they would probably would not let you do it then, I presume.

SPEAKER_04 2:16

That's you know, I've only known Blake for less than a month. We've talked about maybe three or four times, a total of about five hours, and he's already busted me. He knows me quickly.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

It sounds like he knows you well.

SPEAKER_05 2:27

We met in a hot tub on a cruise.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

Enough said. What definitely enough said.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

That's a whole show right there. Um we met in a hot tub on a cruise. Yeah. That's our book, Blake.

SPEAKER_04 2:41

We met in a hot tub. That is our keynote that we're gonna do together. There we go. So this is the complexity of toilet paper. My name is Al Emmerich. I'm Mark Pollock, I think.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

I'm still Phyllis Martin.

SPEAKER_04 2:53

And our guest today is Blake Babcock. Thank you very much. Mark, by the way, your volume's a little hot. You're hot too, but your volume's a little hot.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

I'll break it down here since we're talking about hot tubs and meeting people.

SPEAKER_04 3:06

Now you sound like you're doing 900 numbers in a hot tub. Hi, thanks for calling. Just easy.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

This is the hot tub's hot hotline.

SPEAKER_04 3:13

No. Mark, Mark, we've told you this. We want our guests to stay with us for the show, not leave the show. Fine.

Hot Tub Origin Story

unknown 3:18

Fine.

SPEAKER_04 3:19

Hey, listen, uh, first of all, quick how we got to where we are today. So I'm on this HR cruise with my company, Advantage Design Group, and uh this HR cruise for human resources for Society of Human Resource Management. This really cool dude, Mike Maduro. Um, Madero, and he he puts together these cruises, and it's state Society of Human Resource Management groups from different states. This was Florida, Ohio, and New York. And um, they had these speakers. And Blake was one of the speakers, and I'll tell he can tell you what he was speaking on. And I meet this guy, and I'm like, oh my God, this is a cool dude. I just want to I just want to hang out in a hot tub with him in a cruise ship. No, seriously. I was like, no, right? Am I wrong, Blake? I mean, we just kind of connected. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 4:08

100% serendipitous.

SPEAKER_04 4:10

Yep. And uh there was just this vibe, and I was like, man, um, recruiting is quite the conundrum. We should bust that open and slide it into the stall and see what happens. And so here we are. And as you know, if you are new to the complexity of toilet paper, we have a direction. Uh, we we have a topic, uh, we have a topic and a direction. Um, but it's really about having that conversation about things that hopefully matter to you so that we can make life a little easier for you one complication, uh, one conversation at a time. Or one complication. I think we've accomplished that already. Thank you. So um, so Blake, uh first of all, tell us a little about yourself, Blake.

SPEAKER_05 4:55

Obviously, he likes hot tubs. Here's the funny part about that. I got in the hot tub, I kid you not, to cool off because it was the only available seat in the shade that day. That is true. That is true. That's right. And it worked. I got in the hot tub to cool off. And uh Mark, Al and I had already met, so we didn't we didn't actually meet in the hot tub uh on the on the first night, but uh it does make a better story.

SPEAKER_04 5:25

Actually, it was the first walking around the ship, because this this whole this whole conference was on a cruise ship to Mexico. What a way to what a way to hang out. Um, and not only was there I and this is truly funny, there was only like there was like six people in the hot tub, and I think five of us were all bald.

SPEAKER_05 5:41

So um I did not take that data up, but that's that is a fun fact.

Blake’s Recruiting Path By Accident

SPEAKER_04 5:45

I captured the details. Anyway, be that as it may. So so Blake, uh tell us about yourself. Obviously, you were speaking. Uh please tell us uh feel free to say what you were speaking about, but but also obviously you've been in the recruiting business for a while. So tell us the cool stuff that you want to share with people about yourself.

SPEAKER_05 6:01

Yeah, almost 20 years in the recruiting industry now. Uh, like everyone in the recruiting industry, I got into it by accident. I unfortunately graduated college in June of 2008, which was the worst time ever to find a job. And I thought I was gonna work in professional sports. Well, no professional sports team was hiring at that time. I was even doing an internship with the Cleveland Cavaliers, and jobs were just not easy to come by. And the guy that I was living with at the time worked for a recruiting company. And he's like, I've been telling you that you should interview here. And I finally said, Okay, I still don't understand what you do or why people would need help hiring. 20 years later, I understand why, but it it happened by accident. And uh it's an industry that I've fallen in love with and you know, cater to the um the HR community and in supporting uh the talent acquisition efforts of companies.

SPEAKER_04 7:04

Now, you were also speaking at the conference, and I know you do a lot of speaking, you're very good at it. What what do you love about speaking and what do you speak on?

SPEAKER_05 7:16

That particular presentation was on people, process, and tools. So who is accountable for recruiting? Do they know their role? And when I say do they know their role, what what does recruiting mean to that individual? Are they following the right process to identify the talent that that company needs? What tools are the company, uh, what tools are is the company using to identify talent and really poking holes in all of that? And having the the experience that I do across multiple industries, geographies, really being uh appropriately disruptive and consultative and getting them to a better place.

Complexity At Home With Triplets

SPEAKER_04 8:02

The biggest risk when we talk about complexity and complication is always making sure we don't go off the rails. I mean, we you know, 25 or so shows later, these we could talk for hours about the complexity of um, I'd like to start off by by asking you you've you've heard the show, um, we've had some conversations. I I've we've obviously told you what the show is about. Um just for Blake, because I think it's really cool. I don't want people to just know you as the recruiter. You're you're you're this incredible husband. Uh I'd like you to talk real quickly. You've got a very unique family situation, too. So I'll just introduce the question the following way. How does Blake introduce or define complexity in in your in your life? Let's just start for there.

SPEAKER_05 8:52

Well, the easiest way would be that we have 12-year-old triplets. And now also have my mother-in-law living with us who is battling pancreatic cancer. So it makes a a lot of complexity with with schedules, with parenting three teens, almost two teens, and navigating through that. And I I asked my wife the other night because we have monitoring devices for the kids' phones, so we can see certain things. When I was a kid, my parents had no idea. So everything was hunky-dory for the most part. So there's issues that we're aware of that they're not aware that we're aware of. And so navigating that in do we say something? How do we bring this up? What is the coaching there? Do you just let it slide? Is quite complex.

SPEAKER_04 9:51

Do you see, and we've had this conversation internally, and and I think it's going to serve ultimately the differentiation uh when we ask you about the recruiting side of it uh and such, but do you see a difference between the definition in your world of complexity versus complicated? And if so, what is it to you? Ooh, that's a really good question.

SPEAKER_05 10:20

The difference between complexity and complicated. Give me an example. What what is the what are those previous discussions looked like?

SPEAKER_04 10:31

What Mark Phil, either one of you want to jump on that?

SPEAKER_01 10:36

I mean, we we can. I think the uh um yeah, everybody kind of defines it a little bit differently, which we find our conversations to be interesting to see what they find complicated in their life. Is it the overthinking of something and and and and is that cause the complications and a group of complications equals complexity in their life? Is it complexity as a standalone thing separately from being complicated? Um I I think that's really we're just kind of curious from from your standpoint when you look at your work and your life, is it complicated or is it complex or are they the same thing to you?

SPEAKER_05 11:21

I think recruiting in and of itself, there is a complexity to that, 100%. I think the issue primarily is people take the aspects of recruiting and overcomplicate them. So I think when you have things that are complicated and you can simplify them, the compound effect of that will either if if you've overcomplicated things, the compound effect of that makes the complexity much worse than it it potentially needs to be.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

So I have a question, kind of maybe just jumping right in. So you just said that recruiting is complex. And we have had many conversations, um on the show, some just among one another, that job seekers say the same thing. Job seeking is complex. So where is the overlap and what is happening in the industry, the recruiting industry, to bring those two things together?

Recruiting As Dating And Strategy

SPEAKER_05 12:35

The issue that we have in recruiting, both on the client side seeking talent and then on the candidate side seeking good opportunities is probably similarly to anything in life. And I like to think of it as dating. So if you were to be seeking a significant other, how would you go about that today? You have all these different dating apps. You could go to a bar, you could find someone at your church or at a club. Very similarly with talent acquisition, are we gonna look for candidates or candidates looking for opportunities on Indeed, on LinkedIn? And do you have a specific strategy as a company to identify the talent that you're seeking, or as a candidate to identify a company in a role that you're interested in? Or are people just shotgun approaching and not getting anywhere?

Why Job Posts Attract Wrong Applicants

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Well, Blake, it's interesting that you say that because you know, I I've in in my industry for years, I've I've I've had the opportunity to have positions open and hire folks. And and what I've found recently in postings that I know that I've put out there is it's that shotgun approach. I'll put specific requirements that I need someone um to have these particular skills or these these particular attributes or certifications or whatever the case may be, and I'll get a hundred applications that that don't even relate, not even in the industry. And and then you have people, oh well, it's really hard to find a job. I I'm I'm wondering that that piece of complexity as well of the effort being put into these roles uh and and specificity into what the what the the the organization is looking for.

SPEAKER_05 14:37

I'll give you two different examples. I had a prospect of mine that was looking for customer success managers, and they shared with me, we've had this posted on Indeed, we've had a ton of applicants, everyone's overqualified, we can't find anyone. And I said, No problem. Tell me about the job. So they start to tell me about the job, and I said, Lori, here's your problem. This is not a customer success manager role to the broader market. What you're looking for is an inside sales representative. The customer success managers in the market read the job title and clicked apply. They didn't read anything else. Most people are not even getting to the meat and potatoes of the job description because if I'm a candidate and I'm seeking a new opportunity, in my mind, if I just apply to 200 jobs, hopefully I get one of them. That's not how things work. They changed their job description title to inside sales, and they got the candidates that they were looking for. So it goes both ways. You have companies putting out information that is not reflective of what candidates in the market are seeking. And then you also have the issue of just people desperately seeking a new opportunity and applying to 200 jobs that they're probably not even qualified for, which then creates stress on the company that's seeking something to go. I got 100 resumes to go through. And they spend two hours doing that only to find out none of these people are qualified. Phil?

SPEAKER_00 16:21

So I have two questions, both going like they're completely like differently direction. But I want to go, I think of what I want to do is spend a little more time. It it I was really going in another direction, but I want I do want to spend a little more time for our listeners to better understand the complexity of recruiting. And also for our listeners who are recruiters or in the HR industry. And I think it will be helpful for listeners who are have children who are in the job search or in a job search themselves. So can you go a little deeper into the complexity of recruiting? I'm not sure I ever really thought about it in those terms.

Post And Pray Versus Proactive Outreach

SPEAKER_05 16:58

Yeah, and I think the the dating analogy is accurate. And so bringing that to recruiting. So if I am a company and I need to hire, let's say, an FPA analyst, just posting that job, you are then relying on the ideal candidate finding that job posting and applying. What are the odds of that happening? Versus making it simplified and saying, where is this person working right now? So if I am a manufacturer in Florida and I am looking for an FPA analyst, who are the companies within a 30 mile radius that might have the talent I'm seeking? And how do I create a compelling message to reach out to Phyllis and say, hey, Phyllis, found your profile on LinkedIn. Here's what I love about your background. Here's what you'll love about the opportunity that we have. Let's have a conversation. Versus the post, we call it post and pray in the recruiting industry. Saying, here is the profile that I am looking for, and I am now going to go find it. Similarly, on the candidate side, I think a lot of the benefit comes from networking. So if I'm seeking a new opportunity, I want to tell everyone that I know, and dependent upon your situation, obviously, you don't, if you're currently employed and looking to leave, you need to keep it confidential to some extent. But we're at my son's soccer game this weekend and I'm looking for a new role. And I just share with one of the other parents, hey, I'm not sure who you are or what you do for work, but I'm looking for a new opportunity. Here's what that looks like. Do you know of anything? Because a lot of people find their next opportunity from a friend, a network connection, or what have you versus just the online apply to a million things and hope that organization gets back to you.

Networking Beats Mass Applying

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Yeah, it sounds like the word that comes to mind as you're talking is strategy. Whether you're a recruiter or whether you're a job seeker, it sounds like to sit down and really think for amount a minute about what is your strategy to get the job that you want. And that can go in a bunch of different different directions. So as I think about, and and I know we're going to talk through this, but as I think about first-time uh people entering the job market for the first time, or maybe like they took a mini break and then are and then are coming back, what do you think is the most misunderstood part of today's job search? And what should they do be doing differently than they expected to be doing or that they think they should be doing?

First Jobs, Dream Jobs, And Lowering Expectations

SPEAKER_05 19:52

Great question. And I do every year, I go to a local university and talk to college students about their job search. And my advice to those college students looking for their first job opportunity is get a job. It is not, their question is always, hey Blake, how do I get my dream job? And I say, hey, Johnny, your first job is gonna suck. And your second job is also probably gonna suck. But what you need to do, Johnny, is identify what type of role, what type of company, what type of leadership are you seeking in your career? And you're not gonna understand that until you embrace the suck a little bit. I think we've done a disservice to college students and those that maybe have not gone to college but are entering the workforce that hey, you're gonna get your dream job and you're gonna advance. That is not the reality of the situation. Your first job is probably gonna suck. And I think that'd be a fun question, real quick. What was everybody's first job? And was it your dream job?

SPEAKER_00 21:05

I'll answer that. No, it wasn't my dream job. And I honestly didn't know, but I I do agree with you. And I tell younger people all the time, you don't know what you don't know. So you gotta go. I hate to say this, but there's a little bit of pay your dues to your point of get the job, because you'll learn so much. Some of it you'll like and some of it you won't. And you'll learn skills and a lot of other things along along the way. And I'm not saying you you maybe you love it, but maybe at the end of the day it's not the thing. And that is over.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

Well, I think the other because the other piece to that though, go ahead, Phyllis, is is not just dream job. Maybe you maybe you're in your dream industry, right? But there's this expectation that you're gonna walk in and run the place. And and it's it's great. You made it into the industry, you're you're you know, getting your chops, uh, but you're not gonna lead a team. You're you're not advancing. You have to have You know, I when I I wanted to get I wanted to get into um broadcasting and I remember I had an opportunity to work at the radio station. I wanted to be on air, but what I did was I loaded the van. That was my job. I got to go to remotes. I didn't talk on on air. I loaded the van. Someone else got on air, then I loaded the van back up and I I drove back. That was that was