Furry Little Friends & The Complexity of Pets

Sometimes the smallest choices quietly take over your whole life. We start with a playful question, “If you could come back as a pet, what would you be?” and it quickly turns into something more honest: why pet ownership feels simple at first, then becomes a daily practice in responsibility, boundaries, and love.

We talk through the real-life moment when a shared dog becomes your full-time dog and the rush of joy that comes with the immediate reality check: every walk, every vet visit, every plan you turn down is part of the deal. We also bring in two very different lenses on animals, from growing up surrounded by pets to not being raised with them at all, and how that shapes attachment. Along the way we get into senior pet care, what it’s like to adjust when a beloved dog slows down, and how patience and acceptance become part of the relationship.

Then we zoom out to the modern world of pet culture: dog bars, dog parks, pets showing up everywhere, and the explosion of pet spending, marketing, and social media pressure. We debate what’s helpful versus what’s just “keeping up,” how COVID and work-from-home changed routines, and why a well-trained pet and clear boundaries matter in public spaces. The big takeaway we land on is simple and surprisingly calming: if you choose a pet, you’re choosing a life you’ll build around them, so stop spiraling over every detail and let the love lead.

If this conversation hits home, subscribe for more, share it with a fellow pet person, and leave a review so more listeners can find us.

Transcript

Welcome To The Pet Thought Experiment

SPEAKER_05 0:01

Sometimes I wish we could go back to a time when things weren't so complicated.

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Welcome to the complexity of toilet paper, the podcast that dives into the everyday moments where we overthink, hesitate, or just get stuck. Through honest conversations, unexpected insights, and a whole lot of humor, your hosts Phyllis Martin, Mark Pollock, and Al Emmerich are here to help you roll with it and make your life a little less complicated. One conversation at a time. Right, dude. The beauty of this is its simplicity. Speaking of which, it's time to enter the stall. Put the lid down, or not, depending. Get comfortable and roll with it. Oh, what a knot, dear friend. It's really quite simple. This is the complexity of toilet paper.

SPEAKER_04 1:02

I want you to imagine a life where you are a pet. Now I'd like to ask you to think first, what pet would you be? And then secondly, dear stallmates of the world listening to this episode, um, not only what pet would you be, but what life would you lead? Like, would you be the big Saint Bernard lounging on the couch? Would you be the cat meandering through the neighborhood, living life to the fullest, giving your middle paw and finger to everybody else? Or would you be the parakeet that just seemingly annoys the living shit out of everybody by repeating what everybody said? By repeating what everybody said, by repeating what everybody. These are the things that flow through the minds of Al, Phyllis, and Mark on our way to the stall of complexity. Good afternoon, good evening, good morning, welcome to the complexity of toilet paper, the world of pets.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

What? This is like the most normal introduction I've ever done. I don't think we know what to do with it. I Phyllis and I are staring at each other going, Well, what just happened here?

SPEAKER_04 2:31

There's no like swirling toilet brushes or you know, bombastic bold statements, no big voices. You know, it's just a simple tee up to something that all three of us are very intrigued by and passionate about, which is the complexity of pets.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Yeah, I'm I'm not hating on it. I'm really not. No.

SPEAKER_04 2:53

Okay, so Mark, if you could be a pet, what pet would you be?

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Oh, if I could be a pet. I think I'd be a goldfish.

SPEAKER_03 3:03

For real.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Yeah. I mean, they live quite the quite the life. They have a 10-second memory. They float around, they get fed. You know? Seems pretty simple. I think I would like that.

SPEAKER_04 3:16

You would die in a bowl, though. You'd you'd you you're too adventuresome, man.

SPEAKER_05 3:22

You'd literally get flushed down the toilet.

SPEAKER_04 3:24

You would. And some seven-year-old would swallow you and then poop you out like 22 years later.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Here we go. Here it is.

SPEAKER_04 3:33

Am I wrong?

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Am I wrong? Probably. Okay, so so go to Phyllis, and then I'll think about what other pet that I could possibly want to be.

SPEAKER_05 3:39

That's fine, Mark.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

All right, Phil.

SPEAKER_05 3:42

My answer is easy. I'd come back as any of the pets I've ever had. Very doting caregivers who give me all of their love, adventures, food, all kinds of soft places to sleep, all kinds of outdoor activities, all kinds of goodness.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

All right, Al. What would you be?

SPEAKER_04 4:07

Um, I would totally be um a dog, but I would I would be a specific dog, and that is a greyhound. Now here's why. Here's why. I used to be announcer for the Greyhounds. I used to call the races, and that in its own right wasn't like the best place sometimes for greyhounds. I know some people are like, they shouldn't have, but whatever. Uh but when greyhounds get to live there.

SPEAKER_05 4:32

Maybe not whatever.

SPEAKER_04 4:34

Yeah, that's a good point. However, greyhounds um are get to run, they get to go super fast, but yet they still get loved on, they get fed, they can eat high amounts of calories, and they they don't gain a whole lot of weight. Um, and I would want to be a greyhound. And by the way, when I was announcing for the we actually created an adoption program called Greyhounds as Pets. So say that. Anyway, yeah, I'd be a dog and I'd be a greyhound. Mark, before we get into the show, you gotta you gotta re-play, or you can still be like the goldfish.

SPEAKER_05 5:12

I think it's fine to be a goldfish. I think it's fine. It was the first thing that came to your mind.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

This is a much overthinking. You know, I goldfish, acid. I don't know. They're they're like I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 5:23

He said it and he didn't overthink it.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

It's good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:27

People love their goldfish.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

They do. They do. People love fish. I mean, it's their fun little things. I love the water.

SPEAKER_05 5:34

I mean That's what I was thinking when you said it.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

I don't know. How bad could it be?

SPEAKER_04 5:39

I love fish. I just wish I I I just I can't cuddle a fish, and I I you know, and if I did it would kill it.

SPEAKER_05 5:45

I bet your pe I bet your people, Mark Hougay, who who um who you lived with put would put like a castle in your fishbowl. I bet you'd have a really cool fish tank.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

I think I'd have cool owners who would have like really neat neat stuff in there, like a little scuba diver, little scuba steve with the bubbles that come out. Yeah, yeah. You'd be entertained.

SPEAKER_04 6:04

I would. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Scuba Steve? Is that a name, or did you just call him that?

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Yeah, it's scuba Steve. It's the little guy at the bottom of the tank with the bubbles that go up.

SPEAKER_05 6:12

You'd get to eat fish food.

unknown 6:14

Okay.

The Day A Dog Becomes Yours

SPEAKER_04 6:16

Well, scuba Steve and uh piranha, Phyllis. I'm not no connect, no connection. No connection. You're not a piranha. I'm just saying. Um we're about to become beta fighting fish right now. All right. So, stallmates, uh, friends, uh joining us here on the complexity of toilet paper. My name is Al Emmerich.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

And my name is Mark Pollock.

SPEAKER_05 6:43

And my name on my dog tag is Phyllis the Great Martin.

SPEAKER_04 6:49

Very appropriate. So why are we why do we choose this topic? Um, well, uh I just recently took possession full-time of my dog, who I had shared custody with, uh, my ex-girlfriend. And uh still very good friends, and and we love the dog, but um we were debating, you know, what could we do here? And of course, it was like, hey, I'm gonna keep this guy. But then um for for other reasons, her schedule changed, and it's like, well, I'm gonna have what do we want to do? And it was a really big, huge deal. And I went back and forth and actually had found somebody that might be able to care for him. And then it was like this last-minute series of situations that happened. It was like God just put his hand down and said, This is the way it's supposed to be. I had already made up my mind, there's no way I can give this guy to anybody else. He's he's our dog, he's my dog. He's I've been with him forever. And then at the same time, the person who was gonna take him wasn't able to, the backup wasn't able to, and it was just like this was meant to be. Um, and of course, I was filled with this elation of yay, I get my and my guy's cash. You'll see a picture of him. We're gonna put him in the show notes. Um, but there's a reality that came with this, and that is, oh my gosh, all this unconditional love also comes with unlimited responsibility. And of course, Phil, uh, I'll let you you tell your story, but you've you've got this wonderful dog who's so much a part of your life, and there's some challenges there. Uh, and so we were like, you know what? Um, there's a lot of complexity to having a pet. And so we wanted to peel back some of those layers today, uh, because we we frame pets as these sources of, like I said, unconditional love, but they function really like these long-term dependencies that actually reshape our time, they impact our identity, uh, our boundaries, our relationships. And so we thought, why not step into the stall and uh give that a swirl?

SPEAKER_00 8:58

And you know, I I I don't know if you guys remember this or not, but I kind of have a unique experience because I saw pets from a different perspective. I owned an animal hospital for about eight years. So I got to see a a different view of pet ownership um from a clinical side. It was very interesting. Learned a lot. So you're right, there is a lot to pet ownership that people don't think about, and uh especially when it comes to around the holiday time when everyone's asking for pets. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 9:28

Okay. So let's just kind of get started. Um, Phil, uh I kind of gave my background with cash. I've also owned um uh a dog previously, checkers, a fully white yellow lab who was named after some kids who were part of a tran um an um exchange program from the Czech Republic. Um I sadly had to put checkers down uh from cancer, riddled all over his body. It was just heartbreaking. And of course, I had a dog um when I was a kid. I had a dog that ran away. So I've had this connection to dogs. I've only had one cat. I'm not a big cat guy, but I loved this cat um and had her for many, many, many years. Her name was Diva. Um, although I did kind of treat her more like a dog. So that's my connection to pets and my current situation. How about you, Phil? So people can kind of mindset.

SPEAKER_05 10:23

Yeah, I mean, I grew up with um uh dogs, cats, cows. My dad was in the cattle business. We had ponies for a little while. Um, I've always felt very connected to animals, um, always, like my whole, my whole entire my whole entire life. So um I find that they um I find that each you know, pet I've had the good fortune of having has taught me different things, has come at different points of my life for different um reasons. Um uh and I oftentimes think, I forget who I was talking about this with the other day, but like when I grew up, my dog Kelly, who I adored, um it was, you know, I think it was like a different time. And so people would open their doors, their pets would roam, you didn't have to have a fenced in, a fenced in yard, um definitely part of the family, but it was just um I think it's turned into something more, which I'm not saying is a bad thing. Um, but I do think about like the different um, and maybe I'm looking at it from a child's perspective, like a kid who has a dog, but nonetheless, I do think things were a little bit different. But yeah, I mean I love animals and I'm very sensitive um about them um, period.

SPEAKER_04 11:54

Marky Mark.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

You know, I I come from a different perspective. So I was not allowed to have pets growing up. Yeah. Um my parents did not allow me to have any animals in the house. Um, my grandmother had bought me a dog. I had it for about three seconds, uh, literally. Uh she got it for me at the holidays, and my parents made her bring it back. So I had a turtle for a couple of weeks that I had found at um the marina, and I had some fish. Um but that's it. Uh first pet I cohabitated with was gosh, I was probably 24. So I did not grow up with pets. And so I I I love animals, I think they're wonderful. I am slightly uncomfortable with them in my house.

SPEAKER_05 12:43

Um even your cats?

SPEAKER_00 12:45

I love my cats, they're great. But it's taken me twenty four years to get used to having animals in the house, and there's still times where I'm not I'm not used to it. Uh which is kind of an odd thing. I but they're great. I love having them. I'd be sad if they weren't here. Um but I I don't I don't have the same um I don't have the same history a lot of people do with pets where they have great memories when they were kids and have to have a cat and have to have a dog and have to have a something in the home with them. I'm I'm not wired that way.

Do People Understand The Commitment?

SPEAKER_04 13:23

And by the way, you may have heard in the background. That was Finn Finn. Yeah. Yeah, and and you may get you may get cash because he's been roaming around, but I had my microphone on mute. So so let's just kind of look at this concept because what drove this was choice, right? I made a choice to, or not drove this, but was started this conversation. I made a choice to to kind of say, hey, you know, yes, I'm gonna I'm gonna now take cash full time. Some people I'm sure would say, well, you you didn't have a choice, right? And but I did, I had a choice. Um, and you know, that that starts as I want this dog, you know, it's gonna bring me joy, I'm ready. And and when I thought about that, I was like, that's sort of like having a kid. There's no perfect time, you know, to have a child. And I don't know that there's a perfect time to have a pet per se, because at the end of the day, you still have daily responsibility, you still have daily care. Um and for me, my adult children are all adults. I haven't had the responsibility of a child in many years, like many, like as in 10 plus. Um both of my parents, as as many of you know, are gone. And so I've kind of had this, oh, hey, I don't have any responsibility life. And just the other day, my buddy was like, Hey, you want to go play pickleball after after work? And I was like, Oh yeah. I was like, Oh, I can't. I gotta go home, I gotta let cash out, and I gotta give them a walk. So I I don't know that there's a question, but my question is, do you think that people actually realize when they get a pet what they're signing up for?

SPEAKER_00 15:20

No. 100% no. I don't think they do. Even if even if you had it as a kid and then it's been many years and now you're an adult and you have a pet, it's a totally different thing. I think. That's my opinion.

SPEAKER_04 15:38

That might account for why shelters are so flooded with folks who discard pets, or they say, I can't I can't do this anymore.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Well, every every kid at the holidays wants a rabbit, they want a cat, they want a dog, and then they get it home, and um you've gotta I mean there's there's things that you've gotta do as a pet owner. I mean, you need to buy good food, you need to take it to the vet, you need to uh get a spade or neuter, do you've got I mean it's gonna get sick. It's a it's a living it's a living organism, and you gotta take care of it. And and a lot of parents are like, oh yeah, I'll get, you know, Susie a cat. And then, you know, Susie says, Well, she'll clean the little box and she'll do all the things, but then doesn't, and then parents are like, I don't want to do this, I didn't sign up for this. And they end up they end up getting rid of the pet. And so I I I do think people underestimate the amount of time, effort, and energy, and love that you need to provide um this living creature.

SPEAKER_05 16:39

I'm gonna go in a different direction, Mark. And I agree with everything you're saying, by the way. I just think we're the complexity, a a component of the complexity of pet ownership. One component is that as people, we get very attached to our animals. They're completely dependent on us for really everything: opening the door to go to the bathroom, food, help when they're sick, play time. Um, they take their cues from us, they have to be trained, they don't understand the like when we yell at them, or if you raise your voice, what's happening? There's all of these things. But I think part of the complexity is we get very attached to them. And then that's a whole, that takes you down a whole different road. How do you all how is your life being altered? What are the things that you now find yourself both wanting to, but also having to do? You almost have a perpetual toddler for if you're lucky, 12 to 15 to 16 years. And your life does uh change because of that. But you also get back, I think, an inordinate amount of love and joy as Finn is getting in to his, not getting in, as Finn is in his senior years and has a little bit of dementia. He can't hear anymore. Um, he's got some mobility uh uh things going on with his back legs. For me, he's in that time of life as I'm in the back third of my life. And so I find myself, um, I found myself as this new phase of dog ownership um was happening at the same time I'm getting older, thinking, um, what are the lessons here for me? Because I found um having to step back for a minute and find peace and acceptance in who he is now. He is not the same dog he was even three years ago. He is an older, he is an older dog. And so I find myself thinking about acceptance and how to create, you know, parts of the day that he'll enjoy with either limited mobility or just where he is in his own stage of the world. One of my favorite things to do with him is go for a walk, long walks. And he really can't, like maybe once a week he can do that now, like go for a two-mile walk. But he was like my best hiking buddy, my best jogging buddy. And he, I don't have that with him anymore. So, in some ways, um, we're learning about learning about that together. So um uh in some ways that is complex. It becomes a different relationship. Um, I'm practicing, you know, things like patience, because I hope somebody is as patient with me as I am trying to be with him at this point in his life. Um, it's and Mark, back to your point, it's really not in this case as simple as I'm gonna have a pet. And in some ways, if you open to yourself up to it, it is as simple as I'm gonna have a pet. And my life is going to be different. And that doesn't necessarily have to be overthought. You just have to be ready for it or be awake enough uh to get on the journey, even if you're getting, even if readiness is coming as you uh have the pet in your home with you.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

And I know this isn't the topic, but it's that was so beautifully stated. I I really feel like you even gave us a glimpse into relationships in general, right? And how you age with friends, how you age with partners, um and and the maturity that comes as you both as you both get older. Um that was beautifully stated. So thank you.

SPEAKER_04 20:30

Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna even go a step further. This morning, Phil and I were having a conversation, and um she said, Mark, you'd have been so prouder. She dropped like three mega mic drops, like like like megaton bombs. But the big one was everything is not doesn't have to be a thing. Everything doesn't have to be a thing, right? And I think about there's two trains here. First, to follow up on what you just said, Phil. I've got cash, he's two years old, so I now have him as a puppy. My thing with cash is wrestling. We we just wrestle the hell out of each other, and it is so much fun. I literally, it's like being a dad again with a toddler with with a young kid, you know, when they used to climb on my back or I would wrestle with them. Um and it's just it's just one of the things I look forward to. And I even think about, you know, wow, one day that's gonna be difficult for him. So you need to enjoy it. Um, and in that moment, I'm not thinking about what responsibility I have, where I have to take him. But yet, much like people, the complexity comes when you start casting ahead. I'm gonna have to do this, I'm gonna have to do this, I'm gonna have to do this. Um, and then it becomes overwhelming. And it's like Yes, there's a miscalculation, perhaps, when people make a decision to get a pet they don't think through logistically. Like, hey, the right dog to get when you're not going to be home all the time versus the right type of personality that has to happen all the time, right? Um, you gotta make sure you're getting the right blend for your family and so on and so forth. But the actual day-to-day life, um it's it's no different than having a child, and you're not gonna you're not gonna overthink that or want to overthink that.

SPEAKER_05 22:34

Yeah, that's I was going somewhere with that, Al, because dogs, I think animals live more in the they live in the moment. And so what we hang on to for like an inordinate period of time, my experience of my animals is they just they just don't. They're just moving on. They they just keep on, they keep on, keep on. And those are the for somebody who admittedly is an overthinker, um, I can tell you a million times when uh sweetfin has just, whether instinctually or not, just has come up and like poked me in the leg or poked, you know, come up and just gotten on me and is like, all right, enough, like let's go for a walk, let's go play, go get me a cookie, anything to like snap out of it. And just this is really true. Tim and I have talked about this during like some, you know, like when you're down in the dumps or something's not going right, how they do have the capacity to just help you move along um with your life and your and your and your day. And yeah, sometimes it's annoying, um, but most of the times I find it very um like comforting and it just makes me laugh. Like he just makes me laugh.

SPEAKER_04 23:46

Let's let's flip over. Um if you look at the proliferation of dog bars, dog parks, uh, dog treats. I mean, I remember a time when you went to the pet store and there was like one aisle for dog toys.

SPEAKER_05 24:04

Remember Gaines burgers? Did anybody feed their dog Gaines? Yes, yes. It's like plastic, moldy, like molded food. But that's what we fed our dogs Gaines burgers.

SPEAKER_04 24:15

Well, it was funny because like um Ashley, who was, you know, I had the nice girlfriend who we had the pet with, she's she was a big she would just buy stuff, like she'd buy this toy and that toy. And when she when we did the full formal swap, I'm like, this two whole bags of just toys and toys and toys. And I'm like, wow, where'd that come from? Anyway, my point is this um is it complicated? Like, how would you describe I call it complexity because now you've got the personality, more dogs are out in the open with their owners, and there's the whole, oh, don't let your dog come over here. Oh, I'm so sorry, my dog barked. It's like dogs bark, you know. I'm so sorry, my dog's shit in your lawn. You know, well, dogs do that, you know, pick it up, but and so it's almost like there's this whole subculture. Like, I'm a dog mom, um, you know, I'm a this, and and I it that to me is kind of like I get it, it's it's human, it's what we do, but that to me is kind of complex because it's become this whole thing. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 25:29

It does. It's interesting. In I wanted to look this up real quick. In the la in this this year, 2026, they're expecting total pet related spending in the United States of$157 billion. Just in the United States. And a billion. And uh that is uh that's up quite a bit. In 2016, it was sixty billion. So it's gone up a hundred billion dollars in ten years.

SPEAKER_03 26:08

Phyllis, you're on the spot.

SPEAKER_05 26:11

Why I don't know, because we don't buy Finn that much stuff. I mean, the truth, like I don't like he doesn't.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

That's true. I was just there, and it's like he's got his one or two toys.

SPEAKER_05 26:23

Right. Well, he's got a basket of toys, but they're all old. Like because he he loves toys. So, you know, you go to Costco and you get like the thing that has like five toys and until he wears them out, then they become his favorite toys. And then when they get like super stinky and the stuffing is all out, you know, it takes a while. We'll we will refresh the toys. Um uh but he doesn't get like he doesn't wear clothes per se. Um, we've had the same collar, he has had the same collar he had, like af like after he like got to dog size, because you know, you have the puppy collar different, but like once he became a dog, like from year one, he's 14 now. It's the same collar. We finally had to break down and get a new harness. Just the other, like he had it for like 12 years. We got him a new harness like two years ago. Um, when the leash broke, we got him, we got him a new leash. I get like there's an industry. I'm not criticizing it. You know, I know people love to you know dress up their dogs and do all of those things. It's perfectly amazing and great. I like everything else, uh marketing keeping up, a trend comes, social media, you're watching, you know, like you're seeing different things all the time. Um, I don't I don't mind sharing this because I I totally hear you on like animals everywhere. And and I I really am like so sensitive to animals. I love animals, but um I think everybody knows Tim and I love to go to the casino from time to time. And when we walk in and we see people with like their dogs and strollers on the casino floor or a dot, like and the what I'm really thinking is that dog does not want to be there. Like that dog does not want to be, and I know like that's my personal judgment. I'm very aware of what I'm saying out loud, but when you take it like to the extreme, which I think is the extreme, um, there's something there that's that's happening. We like we would take Finn if he was more when he was younger. Yeah, we would take him out, like if you know, if we went to the beach when we lived in Jack's and we'd like stop somewhere on the way home for a sandwich or something, yeah, we'd take him outside on the picnic tables. He'd sit quietly, eat us, you know, while we ate lunch. But we were never like big, we're gonna take you to dinner, we're gonna do all of those things. I mean, maybe we would with a younger dog. I don't know, but I I totally get what you're saying. I don't have like a good answer other than it it's the times we live in.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

I I do find it fascinating because in the last five years, uh I I have seen so many people bring their pets everywhere. Uh the supermarket, uh, was at Publix the other day and somebody who had their dog. It didn't have a it wasn't a service dog or anything like that. It was just their dog. And um I I I find that interesting in the sense that there are people out there who who are afraid of animals, uh, who don't want to shop at a supermarket in open produce and open this with a pet around. There are people who specifically make choices not to have pets in the home. And so I do find it fascinating that that is the new trend that I can have a pocket pet, basically, and take it everywhere. Um I don't I don't understand.

SPEAKER_04 29:35

Yeah, they're well they Go ahead, Al.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 29:38

I mean, uh blah blah.

SPEAKER_05 29:40

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

You go one of you two go.

SPEAKER_05 29:44

I don't even know what I was gonna say now. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 29:47

Yeah, I I mean, um, so I have I've transitioned over time my theory or my my feelings about that. I used to travel extensively, and uh I don't travel as much anymore, but I I did. And uh it used to bother me when people traveled with their pets. Um and I don't know why, and I don't have a rationalization for it. The pet didn't bother me, it was just sitting in a little thing underneath it. And then one day, years and years ago, I was like, Oh, I wonder if I could take cash with me. It was just automatic, right? And I was like, oh, I'm gonna travel with my pet all of a sudden. Um the the pets are companions for people, and I think this goes back to the attachment, but also the identity. Um depending on where you are in life, if you have either chosen to leave relationships or maybe relationships have been really difficult for you, a pet provides a hell of a lot better companionship than an AI person, you know, than an AI than AI. Um and I think that given that the pet is well behaved, that the you know, the the parents, uh, you know, owners are in control of that animal, I have no problem with pets now being out in open public. And I will give Mark the you know, the organizations or the locations that do that, they make it very clear, hey, this is a pet-friendly space. And there are tons more places that are not pet friendly, pet accessible. And so there's a lot, it's not like somebody's limited in you can't go to a I don't know many grocery stores unless it's an open market where a pet is allowed, because there's just laws around that.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

I I I saw it at Publix the other day.

SPEAKER_04 31:38

But then had to have been a that had to have been a guide dog. I mean, maybe we should check this out, but that had to have been a service dog because um I I know that no no markings, no vest, no nothing that identified it as a service dog.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

It was just a dog. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:53

I just I feel like some of this is just and like this is a very blanketed statement. It's just the times we're living in, and we are all of a particular age. And so for you know, if you if if it's I think it's what I said earlier. When I grew up, we we had animals, everybody loved everybody, we loved our animals. We opened the door in the morning, the dog went outside, the dog came back. I mean, the one who worried the most was me. Like it would stand outside calling for the dog, but I mean, you can imagine you know me well enough to know. Everybody does now that I would do something like that. Um, but perhaps they were less of the object or less incorporated into our lives the way that they are now. And it was just the norm then.

Pets In Public And Pet Spending

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Do you think it's a covet? Do you think it was a COVID thing? Do you think COVID changed any of that?

SPEAKER_05 32:48

I imagine there was some influence because um I know, I know I know at least five people who went out and got dogs and they call them COVID dogs. Like they got dogs during that time. And people, I think that kind of attachment is also very, very real. It's, you know, if you were isolated, even if you were in a family, you know, if you had other people in your house, that became a very different thing. And I do think COVID had some impact um on that. And I'll even use me and Tim as an example. Um, for Finn's whole life, when we were in Jacks, even before we were in JAX, we were out the door at like 7:30. We went to work. Um, if if one of us was free at lunch, we might run home and just, you know, say hi and then leave wasn't a requirement, by the way. And somebody was usually home, you know, at five. And then like we, you know, we went on very long walks, you know, used that time to play with him, all of the things. Now, um, even for me sometimes, and part of this is his age, but part of it is I can. I can transition at some point in the day if I'm worried about him and come home and work from my home office. I do think like the whole COVID thing, um uh anxiety might be too strong of a word, but maybe change the dynamic about how we see them or feel about them or put some very like human emotion um on them. Um, I'm making some of that up a little bit, but you get what I'm saying. I think it changed the dynamic to a certain degree.

SPEAKER_04 34:21

Well, it also changed the structure of work, which impacted the ability to have a pet, right? You know, like I think about my schedule. I'm, you know, in at work. And yes, um, you know, I I have my own company, but I also work for a company now. And eventually, after a period of time, I'll have the opportunity to have a hybrid schedule where a couple of days I can work from home. That's completely changes the dynamics with my dog. He can stay home for 10 hours, he can handle it, but it's not ideally psychologically great for him. He likes to be around. So, anyway, I think pet ownership is I don't, and I was trying to find some data, but I don't want to quote anything. Um, here's here's you know, just kind of put a bow on this thing. Um, here's what I think is complex. And this is not unlike other episodes where we've talked about um, you know, the complexity of decision making and decision-making paralysis, you know, searching on Netflix and did I pick the right one? I think some of that loops into this. What's complex is this artificial that's very real world we've created to fuel an economy and a socialization that that benefits financially around pets. The volume of toys, it literally the volume of dog food, right? The commoditization of freezy items, toys, games that dogs can and cannot play with, um, the proliferation of a new industry, which is great, rubber, like literally, rubber had a rebirth when dog toys grew up. Just walk in any store and find a Kong. The core there is rubber, right? And so industries have popped up and economies have grown. But at the end of the day, as an owner, you've now got this commercialization, which is complex uh in its own right. Um, but we make it complex because we struggle with choices. The second thing that I think has has made it complex is this idea that you said, Mark, we can now take our dogs with us, we can show off our dogs, dogs are a way to have a conversation with people. All those are not right or wrong. For some people, it's a great way to break the ice. I know of a buddy of mine who literally got was always a dog lover, he got an extra dog so that the dog could have a playmate, but also he could, he, he could, it would be easier for him to meet people because he struggled meeting people. He was just an introvert.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

And he had the dog became his wingman.

SPEAKER_04 37:03

It's seriously, his first dog had to stay at home because he was not a social dog. All right. But then the other piece is like we feel attacked, I think, sometimes, or we watch these things happen when people don't have dogs that behave well. Like, I I I and I don't know if this is right or wrong, and I'm gonna leave it open for you guys to respond. Like, it pisses me off when somebody brings an uber aggressive dog out in public. I went to the dog park years ago with with checkers. Checkers was this playful, fun thing, and there was this monster, monster dog that was just aggressive as hell and made everybody uncomfortable. And all of us were going, that dude needs to get the F out of here. That's bullshit. Why would you bring your dog here?

SPEAKER_05 37:56

I don't think that's any different. This is just like one segment of just uh like a million, you could replace dog for like a million, a million things. And I don't think the complexity is necessarily uh the choice. I think the complexity is in it's it's like this, it's what we used to call back in the day, um keeping up with the Joneses. And so we're in a phase of evolution right now where you see it, you see enough of it, you get enough dosage of it on social media or out in public, you might not even agree with it, but you you end up you get end up in the swirl of things. And I think there's complexity. I think it goes back to, I do think Al goes back to what you were saying about when we did the complexity of choice. I think, but it's not necessarily in my mind the choice more toys or take your dog out. I think it's the complexity of how we make those decisions and why are we making those decisions. And that's a generational thing as well, because if you're growing up in this moment in time, you won't know any different.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

But I I go back to what resonated the most was this complexity of attachment piece that you said. And I think that's really where it all stems from, right? So all these other things are because you are attached. You're gonna spend all this money because you're attached to to this to this.

SPEAKER_05 39:27

For some, it's how you show love, sure.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

Sure. And so if if that's how you show love is buying gifts, you're gonna continue. So if you might do that for humans, you might also do that for pets. It could be keeping up with the Joneses. Um, but that also m might be something that you do in general. You might be driving a car you can't afford.

SPEAKER_05 39:45

That's exactly what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

Dressing your dog that in ways that you can't afford. Um, all because it's a it's an image that you have to keep. That's right. And and I think what resonates with me, and you know, and and I'll say it and and and it's it's not gonna win me any popularity points here, but I I've never understood that attachment. And I think it's because of my upbringing, and it just stuck with me. I I'm not attached like that. And it's it's weird and unfortunate because I see other people get enjoyment in ways that that I just I don't feel. I love my cats, they're amazing, but I'm not attached to them like other people are attached to their their companions. But there's a story I I've I've never seen it like I did firsthand, um, when we had the animal hospital, and people would come in with their with their pet who was ill, and it was just incredible to see the love that people gave back to the animals that loved them. And you mentioned this earlier, Phyllis, on if you know you hope to be treated the the way that you've treated your animals. Um, it was incredible to watch that love and see it um at times when unfortunately pets had to be put down, or um, a lot of people can't afford the medication, you know, diabetic cats, or you know, whatever the case may be. And um and it it really is uh just that that complexity of attachment which is going to drive so much of your relationship. So I I don't know, I I keep going back to that as when I'm thinking about this show and what is the complication, what is what is driving that? And I I think it is the the connection.

Stop Overthinking And Love The Dog

SPEAKER_03 41:30

There's a lot you just said that kind of put things in a bow.

SPEAKER_04 41:36

And it's uh Phyllis, it's so wild that this personal conversation you and I had this morning circles around everything's related back to you know what you said, everything doesn't need to be a thing, um, but also just you know, we talk about this relationship and this new relationship, it's like just be just be in it, it's been this period of time. Here's what we know, here's what's simple. If you have a dog and you're attached to that dog, part of that glue is undoubtedly the unconditional love. Human beings, by and large, need to feel loved. It is, it is it is Maslow's hierarchy of needs sewed into it. This this need for purpose, this need for connectivity, and that's what dogs give us. You know, that's why we run or we struggle with dogs that are standoffish. I struggle with cats because I traditionally haven't seen cats that are just lovey, levy, lovey. I I I crave that connection. Dogs give that to me, right? And so that unconditional love, that's all you need. That's not complicated because you're gonna the the what's complicated is how you manage to schedule. What's complicated, but the there's things to do that, but the pet ownership is not complicated, and that's what that's my big takeaway right here. I love cash, he has my heart, and I'm gonna do anything I can. And the more I overthink what's right or wrong for him, and what's the right time, and if I have to be home by this time or this or that, logistics be damned, it's it's part of life, but I'm gonna do what I need to do, and so stop overthinking it, Al. It's not complex. You love cash, you have unconditional love, and I'm now gonna build my part of my schedule around him because I made that choice. You made a choice, it's not complicated.

SPEAKER_03 43:40

That's my that's my my takeaway.

SPEAKER_05 43:44

Good one.

SPEAKER_03 43:47

I might be growing up as a result of you two.

Al's Mic Drop & Rapid Fire Pet Puns

SPEAKER_04 43:51

Oh, well, you should stop that. Did did you just mic drop me? Was that a or or or are like are we closing the show on my Comment?

SPEAKER_05 44:00

I think we're gonna close on your comment.

SPEAKER_00 44:03

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_05 44:03

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_04 44:05

By the way, do you do you let do you let your duh do you let Finn drink out of the toilet bowl?

SPEAKER_05 44:10

Finn doesn't he could if he wanted to, but he just doesn't. I mean he just doesn't. He drinks out of his water bowl.

SPEAKER_04 44:19

Yeah. Okay. I was just curious. Yeah, it doesn't matter. These are these are important questions.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

We you know, had we done the the roll-up, we could have passed these.

SPEAKER_04 44:28

I know. I know. I know. And we we need we need to we we but we're not gonna do it. I know I want to celebrate the fact that Al got a mic drop.

SPEAKER_00 44:36

You did.

SPEAKER_05 44:37

He did.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

You did.

SPEAKER_05 44:38

Congratulations.

SPEAKER_04 44:39

Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 44:41

You did good. We were doing so good, Mark.

SPEAKER_00 44:46

I know. I thought we were there. Maybe next episode.

SPEAKER_04 44:49

Hey, I don't want to bark up the wrong tree here.

SPEAKER_00 44:52

Oh. See, you you were gonna end with a mic drop, and now you're ending with with the dad joke.

SPEAKER_04 44:58

But listen, you know what you need, you know what you guys need to do? You you need to put me on a leash. I mean.

SPEAKER_00 45:03

Oh it's getting worse.

SPEAKER_04 45:06

I know, and I'm looking a little gruff too, I can tell.

SPEAKER_00 45:08

I need to say how about this? This is the complexity of toilet paper.

SPEAKER_03 45:14

Did you say toilet paper? Everything complicated.

SPEAKER_02 45:18

One big baby. I'm overthinking. I'm over I'm overthinking