Complexity, Determination, & Birthdays: How Phyllis Found Her Voice:

She didn’t “just sing.” She walked straight into the fear she’d been negotiating with since she was a teenager and did it in a crowded living room on her 60th birthday.

We’re celebrating the one-year anniversary of The Complexity Of Toilet Paper by unpacking the biggest theme that keeps showing up in our conversations: finding your voice. Phyllis shares the full arc of her singing journey, from early musical roots to grief that changed her trajectory, to the moment she decided she was done leaving this part of her life undone. We talk about what practice really looks like, why courage is rarely loud, and how the most intense pressure can come from being physically close to the people you care about most.

From there, the conversation turns into the “after” that nobody warns you about. What happens when you reach the goal and the adrenaline fades? Phyllis names the strange sense of loss between an ending and a new beginning, then starts mapping the next steps: how to keep performing, how to create a recording, and why writing original songs might be the next chapter. Along the way, we dig into overthinking, decision regret, and a powerful idea we call “mat carriers” the people who hold you up when fear makes you freeze.

If you’ve been stuck in analysis paralysis, craving more confidence, or searching for a push to do the thing you keep postponing, this one is for you. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs it, and leave a review. What dream are you ready to stop leaving undone?

Transcript

Welcome To The Stall

0:01

And I wish we could go back to a time when things weren't so complicated. Welcome to the complexity of toilet paper, the podcast that dives into the everyday moments where we overthink, hesitate, or just get the mode. Through honest conversations, unexpected insights, and a whole lot of humor, your hosts Phyllis Martin, Mark Pollock, and Al Emmerich are here to help you roll with it and make your life a little less complicated. One conversation at a time. Right, dude. The beauty of this is its simplicity. Speaking of which, it's time to enter the stall. Put the lid down or not, depending. Get comfortable and roll with it. Oh worry not, dear friend. It's really quite simple. This is the complexity of toilet paper.

Singing Opens The Anniversary

1:03

I wanted to open the show today. Singing with my voice in this very strange way. Bustin out of tune like a happy loon. Singing all the way. Complexity every day. Can I at least get a frickin' no applause? I I I've I'm I I'm always afraid to like interrupt you. Like I don't know if it's the end or some dramatic pause, and then if I say something, it ruins the moment. That was beautiful. That was really that was touching. That was really nice. That was I mean, first that shit was on key. Okay. It was good. And you just made it up out of nowhere, which is always Phil. Did you just give me eyeballs? I did. Did you just give me eyeballs in a judgy way? I did. But I meant it with love. I can do that, right, Mark? You can. You can judge with love. Okay.

One Year In And Still Standing

2:02

Yeah. In case you're happening to wonder what you've stumbled across, even though you selected this particular podcast, um we are singing into this show because we're going to be talking about the one-year anniversary of not just this podcast, but also a year removed from a goal set by Phyllis that has been actualized. And that goal was if you've listened to the past episodes, you will know that she began a journey to sing. And we'll reset all that. But first and foremost, this is the complexity of toilet paper. And my name is Al Emerick. And and I'm and I'm Mark Pollock. I'm just going straight, Phyllis Martin, and I do sing. You do sing. And I I do need to make a correction there, Al. I don't necessarily think it was just for her to sing. It was for her to find her voice. Well, we're gonna get there. I was trying to do the bridge between the singing, Mr. Exactness. Oh, fine. Someone's gotta do it. Don't piss me off. I will sing the whole damn show. I will be willing. Every question I ask will be. Hey, it'll be the shortest episode ever, and it'll just be me because everybody will have left, including all the people listening. Okay. Hi, again. Uh, yes, this is the complexity of toilet paper. Uh, if you happen to be a first-time journeyer and venturer into our stall, welcome aboard. Bring your toilet paper, get it ready to wipe it out, and realize that this is a show that breaks apart complexity in life, uh, one conversation at a time. And um, there's complexity all around us. Uh, the first thing I'd like to acknowledge, because the bulk of the show is really about Phil's journey, um, is we set out to do a show, uh, start a show, and we had a commitment to ourselves to get to 25 episodes. We're now up to, I think, 29, 30. This will be the 30th, I think, something like that. And most importantly, uh to see where we stood. And the good thing is we're still standing, and it's a year later. Like it's hard to believe, but it's not just a year later that we launched, um, it is almost a year later, specifically to the day that this show is dropping. And that was not intentional. But math is interesting that way, right? So if you go every two weeks, you know, you kind of it kind of maths out there. And Phil, when is your stick of the mystery? I know the ceremony. Well, when is your actual birthday? June 3rd. When is the actual day? June 3rd is her actual birthday. And so, so okay, yes, we're recording this show in advance, but the show will drop on June 2nd. Which is the day before the shirts. Yes. Wow. We are see, folks, how deep we get. I mean, it's like true education here. And now you know why we specifically said let's figure out complexity because this shit's difficult. Meaning second uh before the third. Yes, meaning that the very first show dropped on June 3rd of last year. Right. I don't know what that means, but nothing. Who needs Google when you've got Phyllis? That's right. That's right. All right. So, Phyllis, um, I'm gonna start with you. We are one year removed from the show. Um oh, and by the way, if you happen to again be a first-time uh purveyor of our potty, then you will know that we we do not have a roadmap for our show. Now, don't get me wrong, we're not gonna take you down a path of chaos. We do have a structure. Well, a little bit we we do have a structure, but we don't rehearse anything. So we don't really know what's coming out from a questioning standpoint. We just have a direction that we're pointing. Uh and and so I will I will break the little, you know that what do they call that thing that goes across a toilet seat when you're not supposed to sit on it? Is there a name for that? Like the sanitizing paper that like don't yeah. We need to find out what the name of the whatever that is. So to break that sanitizing thing, I will ask you the following

What Life Feels Simpler Now

6:31

question. Phyllis Martin, one year later, what is one thing that you have learned as a result of this show that you have made less complex and what is still really complex? Um I think um that that is a great question that I wish I had prepared for, and I have not. So there's no wrong answers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think um, yeah, the thing that I have made less complex is just being me, like being okay being me, which means I tend to just speak with ease, um be transparent. Um, not that I wasn't transparent, but just say what's on my mind without trying to hedge it or make everybody else feel comfortable. Um, and maybe that's really the thing that I've made less complex is the knowing that it's not my job um to hold everybody else's emotions or what they think or what they feel based on something that I might say or that I might not say, or just in general. Um and I don't know that I think anymore that I um make things this is interesting. I think I make very easy things, probably as complex as I ever have, like super simple things, you know, bananas or apples or what time to leave. But I think the things that used to weigh on my mind, I just don't make complex anymore. The big things. It's the little things that get me every time. Interesting. Mark, can I go next? I was gonna go last, but can I go next? Sure, absolutely. And here's here's why. I have to I'm smiling, and if obviously if you're watching this on YouTube, you'll see it. But Phyllis, you're re your less complex is I it is exactly the same for me. There was a there was a point, I don't know, four episodes, maybe seven episodes in where we were talking uh about something similar, and I think I shared it, but it doesn't matter. Mark and I both came at this uh project initially having broadcast backgrounds. Um and in our early iterations of this, we both I'll only speak for me. I s I realized I was being production al. I was being radio al. Even though the voice was here, I wasn't in my voice yet because I still was worried about the production flow, quality, structure, different than when I'm just sitting around having uh a bourbon with you guys, or we're just sh shooting the breeze. And for the this show has taught me and made my presentation as a speaker, as uh as a podcaster better because I just let go. I am me. This is Al. If you walk and talk to me on the street or at a party, this is Al. And to have found my voice in that respect, even though I already was very comfortable, um, that is just so easy. And it's bled into other aspects of my life. And so that's what's less complex. That along with um I don't know that things have become more complex for me. Um, I really don't. I think the heightened awareness between my own growth, but also listening to all of these different stories and listening to your stories and sharing my own has made me realize just where I was overthinking, and now I'm so hyper-conscious about it that I'm able to see it and head it off at the pass before it really blows out. And so I now am very hyper-conscious of um, oh Al, you're you're just desperately overthinking this. Doesn't mean I still don't get down the road, and like, you know, perfect example the other day, I was trying to figure out whether or not to go to this concert, and I started thinking about all the logistics and all this and all that and all that, and I was like, Al, wait a minute. The simple path here is you don't have the time to do this, and budgetarily not a good call. So don't do it, don't try to overthink how you could do it. Now you're making it more complicated. You know the right path, just do it. Step into your own, you know, own mojo. So for me, that was that would be mine. So I think for me, um I think the question was what is one thing that we I've made less complex? Yes or that's become or that's become less complex. Yes. I I think what has become less complex because of this show is that with complexity as the star of our show and our desire to go after that and understand that, I have realized that I'm not alone. And in that, that has helped me be aware of what probably is causing the complexity. And so I don't know that it has reduced my complexity over this past year, but it has definitely made me aware of it because we have made it the star. Um and so for me, how do I how do I put that into how do I put that into words? Um, I think for me, recognizing that fear is something that I can control going into situations and the fear of making this show perfect, or the fear of not being vulnerable, or the fear of being too vulnerable, um, that is the complexity. That's the complexity that I learned about over the last year. And because of that, I can be aware of it and I can either decide to sit in that fear and and and overthink it, or I can release it and just make a decision. Hmm. Wow. Well said, Mark. That idea of releasing it and just make it a I that I I love that analogy, the idea of releasing the fear. Yeah. I know it's the same. Some people say letting go, but I don't know. Sometimes releasing something sounds better than letting go. Well, sometimes you need it, right? So, you know, sometimes you need that fear. Sometimes you need to be vigilant about what's going on in the world. And so having fear is not necessarily a bad thing. It can keep you out of a bad situation, it can help you make a wrong choice. But there are times where that fear, based on our conversations this last year, debilitate you. And in those situations, you've got to take a look at that fear and say, well, is this something that I want to hold on to because it's going to protect me? Or do I release it and just go for it? Just go for the thing. And and so I do think that there's a that there's a there's a decision that has to be made. And and and I think that that's helped me over the year. I I think the other thing that um I hope this show has done for anybody who has listened is to know no matter what the situation, whether you're a stand-up comedian or tearing down a nine billion dollar company or whatever the case may be, um you're not alone. We all share it, right? If you're if you've listened to the show for a couple episodes, you know all of us are afraid of something and it makes us over overcomplicate things. So at least that comfort in knowing, like, eh, uh, you know, I might overthink, but so do I so does everybody else. Right. That's so cool you said that, because we're not going to go through every show, but you really think about the people and I if if if you are listening and you've been a fan or you or you're just starting, uh, I would really encourage you to surf through these episodes. We really have we really have had some amazing guests with amazing stories that range from loss to diabetes to as Mark said, tearing down a billion-dollar company and uh, you know, music journeys, rapping, uh, entrepreneurship. I mean, there's just such a gamut of different people, not to mention our own stories. I mean, hell, let's remember over a year ago we sat in in Charleston, South Carolina, realized, despite our deep friendships, that for the first time all three of us had lost our parents. I I mean, and that was just like such a pinnacle of our show. So, anyway, um, well, speaking of fears, I didn't know where we were gonna go with

The Dream That Would Not Leave

15:25

this. Speaking of fears, let's jump in. Fear not, fear not, I have you under my wing, young Padawan Phil. Um so, Phyllis, give us the high-level overview uh before we start pegging you with questions. But tell us again about your journey so that those who haven't heard before, your journey that uh concluded um just a few weeks ago when you were singing in front of your closest friends. Yes. So I think I said this on a show at some point. Um that um I've carried kind of this uh fantasy/slash vision since I was probably 13 or 14. No, that's not true. Yeah, probably so. Somewhere between like 13 and 16 of singing. I played instruments when I was a kid, I sang when I was a kid, I was in theater when I was a kid. Everybody knows my mom died, and that just changed the trajectory of my life, and I just let it go. But it's always stayed with me as something not that I should do, but perhaps that I was put here to do and to tell story through voice. And there are a million reasons why over the course of um my life that I did not um do that. Um, but I distinctly remember this was probably 20 years ago or so. Um I was um uh going to therapy and you know, just like the chit-chat before you, you know, get into things. And um, I think it was my therapist's 60th birthday. And she, we were just chit-chatting about that for a minute, and she said, you know, I either I'm turning 60, 60 or about to turn 60, and I'm just realizing that I'm never going to be a ballerina, which was always my dream. And that stood with me, um, like it stayed with me, just somewhere in the back of my head. So just over the course of my own journey, facing fear, growing, um, I decided that I did not want to leave any part of my life undone. And if I did not walk toward fulfilling that vision in my head, that it would most certainly be left undone. And so I started taking voice lessons on and off um for a year or so. Um, and then found an amazing um even Finn thinks it's amazing, found an amazing um um person in my life uh who is an amazing um opera singer, but also was willing to coach me. Um and she shepherded me to um my singing debut in front of people last weekend. Shout out to Leah! The amazing Leah, who was your accompanist too. Yes, what a gift for her to do that. She did not have to do that. Phil, how how long were you doing singing lessons before you told anybody, other, of course, than your your beautiful hubby? Oh, I told everybody I was taking singing lessons because I was so proud of the fact that I was finally doing it. Nothing really brought me at the time or brings me more joy than singing lessons, short of just singing. And so I was super excited that I'm encountered another amazing human being, Xandrina Dunning, and a beautiful artist and singer who was willing to um have one Zoom with me to let me know if there was anything to work with and then to help me find a coach. Um and so as soon as I had that Zoom with her, which I was so proud of myself for doing that, she um connected me uh with a school to start taking um voice lessons. And I told everybody because I was so excited about it. I like best hour of my week. So with complexity being the star, walk us through that moment when you're all your friends are there, we're at the party, I saw you holding your your your uh diaphragm for a minute, uh getting some air into your lungs. Yeah. Um what what was the complexity happening in that moment? Hold on, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna preempt that because you gotta set the scene

Setting The Birthday Performance Scene

20:06

here, first of all. Okay. We skipped a chapter. I did. So Phyllis Phyllis didn't just yeah, chapter skipper. Uh Phyllis didn't just say, Hey, I'm gonna have a little uh small gathering, uh, and would you mind listening while I tune a piano here? She coincided this singing debut with her 60th birthday and invited uh just a score of beautiful friends and people throughout throughout her life, right? There are people who have inhabited different chapters in her life, and and uh they were there, including Mark and I, uh, who were just so honored to be there, of course. And so it's not just, oh, I'm gonna do this thing, I'm gonna do this thing on a very quintessentially important moment, and everybody knows that I'm gonna do this because this is why they're all here. And so the room is filled, literally along the stairs, filling the dining room, the the living room on the couches, and not a pin drop could be heard. Uh or mean you could hear a pin drop because the focus was on her. And I think it was important because there was no other distraction. It was totally you. And so now the stage is set.

Vulnerability In A Crowded Room

21:32

So, Mark, that's such a great question. The complexity, there were a couple of complexities there, like in that moment, but the real complexity um was how close people were in my space. And so um I noticed, I knew I figured that out early on, and I just had to trust I was going to be able to work my way through it. Um, and I figured it out, you know, my lessons were at Leia's house in a lovely music room with just the two. With us. As we got closer, I one day had Tim like sit in the family room where everybody was. And I like was realizing for the first time how close people were going to be to me, like in my space, like in my singing space. And I, to be honest with you, I haven't worked my way all the way through it. Um, but the the complexity became what am I gonna do when there are 40 of you staring at me, like in my space with phones up, knowing, especially the two of you, know how sensitive I am to that. And so um, even the things I have noticed post was that I had a really hard time looking at people because it was so many people looking back at me. There wasn't like a stage to separate me, you know, like when you speak, usually a stage. And the complexity for me became just what you saw. Will there be I have I trust my voice completely? What I was worried about, the complexity became how do I get enough air in and how do I stay focused enough to tell the stories the way that I wanted to tell them. And that's technical work of the work. That was the technical piece then. It it you know, I I thought it was technical too, but it's not. It's it's to me, it was a mind game, right? Like, could could I be vulnerable enough? I mean, I have walked all the way to the edge of the swimming pool or the mountain or the cliff. Can I be vulnerable enough to stand there, what felt like naked, and tell you the stories in the way that I wanted to tell them and trust that Phyllis would show up? And that's always the case. You two know that's been the case with me since we started the podcast. Could I show up in full form and do what I wanted to do the way that I wanted to do it? And that became the complexity, that became the work of the work. Did you oh sorry, go ahead, Mark? Did you, you know, having been an actor for many, many years, you know, you don't ever walk off the stage and say, How did I do? Um, you know, you you how did you do is based on what you saw the responses to be. Um I'm I know you got a lot of feedback and everybody's proud of you. We were, my God, so proud of you. But was there a part of you that still walked off going, How did I do? How did I do? Or did you were you at such a point that you just didn't give a shit? There was a part of the nailed it or that walked off and thought that wasn't your best performance. Literally. That's what I was thinking. That wasn't the best time you've like that. Literally what I was thinking. Um, yeah. But I suppose that's natural for anybody who, you know, the high high critic inside my head. Of course. Um, I think we do it with our shows, we do it with a lot of things, right? Like, was that our best show? Did was dead is anybody gonna find that interesting? So I I I hope I'm not fast forwarding again. If if so, you know, hell with you. Uh but uh so you here's another complexity I want to talk to you about. So, again, complexity being the star, you have worked tirelessly to get to this point. You are awaiting a, you know, your birthday, your party, you get up there, you sing, everybody's applauding, and you it was just a beautiful event. Everybody left, you're still recovering because you know, when this launches, it's a few weeks from now, but uh, but it's only been a few days. Um when you think now about what's next, um what what's that how's that play in your head? It's such a great question, Mark, because I've been I have the this huge sense of loss. Um and I feel I don't think it's like party letdown loss. I actually think it's the loss with the understanding that one journey is ending and another journey is beginning. And I'm just kind of sitting in the middle of those two things, like saying goodbye to one. Well, I'm curiously saying hello to another. And that is in my head, it is very complex. And I I promise you, I'm still working my way through like what that feeling is and what's behind it. So for our listeners, you know, that's that's an interesting space, especially if you've not decided what the next thing is. And I think people experience that with lots of things, right? Maybe they wanted to write a book and the book is done. Maybe they wanted to find a new job and they got it. Maybe they wanted to do X, Y, and Z and now that's complete. What is the process that you're calming your nervous system down since it's only been a week to say, I I have some time. I don't have to pick the next thing right this moment. Or are you actively picking the next thing to calm that?

After The Applause What Next

27:06

I think I know the next thing, and it's um I'm trying to think if this is the analogy I want to use. I think it is not. Um a performance at the Staples Center or Medicine Square Gardens or something. You're gonna sing with Billy Eilish. No. Uh but I am pretty clear I have to keep singing. Like now I think the next thing is things, it's things that I don't know how to do, but I will learn how to do, which is how do I get myself booked at wherever? I mean, let's be real. I'm an amateur singer. So, but how do I get booked at some piano bar? Or how do I make a a tape? That's not right, but how do I have like some kind of demo where some, I don't know what it's called, like where somebody can write. How do I make a tape where somebody can a recording, right? So that I have some proof that I can sing. Like those are the really next things in my mind. And I need a minute, like to catch my breath to figure out how I'm gonna do that. But like you said at the beginning of the show, I am not alone. I'm not alone in that. There are plenty of people in this community that already know how to do that that will help me, um, that will help me to do that. What I'm certain about is stopping is not an option. Um and I also had like this unusual, not unusual, I had a thought um about songs, and it dawned on me that I probably should be writing some of my own. Like it's time to start that part of my life. Hmm. Part of what I am so excited about hearing what you've just said, and I reiterate for the for you listening that we obviously have not scripted this, so no idea that she's throwing and what she's throwing our way. Is your journey to overthink these decisions because as a as a performer, as anyone engaging in what amounts to a voracious appetite for this, you have a ver I would describe it as a voracious appetite for this experience uh in the most positive ways, a healthy, voracious. Um I hear you talking about performing, I hear you talking about writing, and we also have learned about decision regret and all the possibilities. And so I I think your challenge is gonna be not what's the right path, what's what's the path. Can I can I add something to that though that's really interesting? You have paths now. So here here's here's the interesting thing. We talked at at the beginning, and now you gave me some shit. I said it wasn't her singing, it was her finding her voice. And uh you said, well, we'll get to that. Um uh why are you mocking me, man? Just like that. Why are you why are you doing that? And then some voice came out, and you're like, I'm going to sing. Um but uh but what he's giving me the bird, I'm giving it back. Um but what's fascinating, Phyllis, and I think what's what's fascinating, uh I'm I'm keep going. Uh just keep pushing through. Uh what I found fascinating though, Phyllis, is you got to a point where, again, we talked about this on another show. You were gonna quit this show. Yeah. If we were to play this out, you would have never sung. I'm gonna just assume this. You you would have actually not performed at your birthday. I I really do believe that that would have set off a series of things that said, you know, I'm not finding my voice here, I'm doing okay here. I don't know that I can do that. Now, maybe not. We'll never know, but that's my assumption. And the interesting thing is you overstepped, you you stepped over that that comp that that barrier of complexity and you said, you know what, I am gonna stick with the show. And and in I forget what episode you you came out and you like, I found my voice. You continued with the music lessons, and now all these doors of opportunity are opening up for you or you want to open up for you. And I think that's a solid lesson for our listenership to say, if you can get past it, if you can really say, I'm gonna try this, I know it's scary, I know I have fear, I know it sounds complex, I'm gonna simplify it and move forward. Where you are today with your voice is 100% different than it was last year. And had you made a different decision, a hundred percent different than where it would have been again, like I think you would have been where you were. It wouldn't, you wouldn't be here. I I I do not disagree with you at all, 100%. I do. And I and I and people who have heard me sing like a year ago or a year and a half ago have said your voice is completely like your singing voice completely changed over the past over the past year. Um and I do think this really was it yes, it was about singing, but it was really about finding my voice and being unafraid to use it and trusting it and trusting that I would show up with it.

Watching Someone Do The Hard Thing

32:27

Before we get to around the horn lessons here, I have to ask you, Mark, what was your experience? Meaning this is your friend, your uh podcast mate, someone that through this show you've developed a close connection to. Um what were you thinking as you were watching Phyllis? And and not just watching Phyllis, but what were you thinking in in totality of just being present at this such a special experience? Man, I'll tell you there's a lot. Um one uh just you know, the there was this feeling of anticipation. Like, when is she gonna go up there? Oh, it's gonna be at seven. People are talking, you know, we're we gotta get in the room, you know. Uh people are rushing to the bathroom so they can they can get back and and and find their seat or whatever. And um I felt peace. So I I talked to Buphyllis a few moments before you went up and and you were very peaceful. I felt like you were in in the zone. And I was in your kitchen kind of looking through and seeing the faces of people uh uh like Al, you had mentioned before, upstairs, on the stairs, uh, you know, all around. And and the the outpouring of of love for you was was so thick. Like, you know that expression, you could cut it with a knife. Like it was it was thick in that room of just people wanting to see you succeed and excited to see you do this thing. And if you were off key or on, no one cared. They were just so excited to be part of this this world, and and it brought me such joy to see how many people love you. And then for myself, I don't know, I had like this goofy grin, um like a just a super proud friend. Just I I was all smiles. I was so excited that you were doing that, and you did a tremendous job, and uh I just felt a level of pride and excitement, and um uh it just it was just such a warm feeling, like a just a warm soul hug uh to see you accomplish this. And uh I was honored to be there and watching it in real time. Thank you. Yeah, I I I was overcome with with a sense of almost you know, everything Mark just said, I'm not gonna repeat it, but I'll zero in on one thing. When you uh watch somebody do something hard, I don't care if it's somebody you don't know and they're a couple of weeks ago there was a gentleman uh downtown, um and I I couldn't get to him, otherwise I would have helped him. But uh bottom line is he was in a wheelchair, he's missing one leg, and he literally was just getting himself across the street. And uh I was like, I just took a moment, I was like, wow, that guy just did that uh to an athlete uh doing what they do. When you see somebody doing something that's hard to do and they just do it and they fight through it, that's what I felt, Phil. I felt like this was she did it, and I just kept that's what was running through my mind. Obviously, I was running the cam, you know, running the camera, and I was looking at this very specifically because I was looking at video of people, I was looking at you. Uh I part of me wishes I hadn't shot it because I wanted to just focus on you. But it gave me the purview of watching other people to Mark's point. And uh as soon as we were done, uh I said to I don't remember what her name is, I said, how difficult was that? And she's like, Who does that? Who does that? Phyllis does, and that was her response. I wish I could remember who it was, and and so that that was what stood out is like she did that. And the fact that you said it, you did it, you worked for it and you did it, and now you're thinking about what's next. Uh that's that's impressive. So thank you. The truth is, I didn't tell everybody I was singing, so only like a handful of people really knew. Oh, really? Oh. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Interesting. I know a couple of people were like, when's the slip and slide coming out? And I I brought my bathing suit. And I just told people, hey, listen, it's I have no bathing suit and I got lots of baby oil. Oh I miss I missed the slip and slide. Apparently you missed the baby oil. Yep. Oh, and and I didn't even I didn't even use the bathroom, I just peed in the backyard. But anyway. Uh well, I think I'm glad like you were saying this because there's like so much I wanted to say, and then it totally didn't say it like before I started singing. Part of the reason it was so important to have the you and the others in the room was it was a way for me to say thank you for finally allowing me to find my voice, that every person in that room played some role at some point in my journey to make it possible for me to believe that I could. I think that's what people need in life. I I you know, I it's it's it's that either one person or a group of people who can rally behind you and say, you know what, you you got this. And and if you fail, you still got

Mat Carriers And Real Support

38:11

it. And and I think that's that's another piece of complexity that that we rarely talk about is is and maybe it's a show in the future of like what uh I was with a friend of mine, Chris, and we were talking about um mat carriers, right? People who could uh so there's a story in the Bible, right? Uh this uh this person is um uh crippled, can't, can't, can't walk, paraplegic, whatever. And um the friend uh does everything that they can to get them in front of Jesus so they could the the he could heal them, right? And so what they did was they carried, there were four friends that carried each corner of the mat and and broke open the roof and and brought the person down. And so it's the we call being a mat carrier. So, you know, who who are the people on the ends of that mat holding it for you when when you can't move? And um when you're crippled with fear or crippled with uh anxiety or or whatever it is, they're they've got the corners of that mat and they're they're holding you up and supporting you. And and I think what's what's amazing is I looked around that room, Phyllis, for you. And you know, I'm sure some of those are just casual friends. Maybe maybe they're all very deep friends, but I looked around that room and the way that people looked at you and were excited to be there. And people came from Washington, DC, Florida, uh all over, all over the New York. Like there was people from all over. That's that's a that's a level of of commitment to somebody, of, of being that Matt carrier, and and what a beautiful, what a beautiful thing you have. And that's because you are who you are. And I think that's just uh, you know, uh honored to be your friend. Like that's that's really cool. Right back at you. We've kissed, we have kissed her ass enough on the show. Do you think you have? I'm not sure. Um just kidding. I'm just kidding. We need to bring we need to bring this one home because this will be uh uh I can't wait for the mic drop.

Grace First Then Do It Afraid

40:19

Um and Phil, you're gonna get the mic drop. You're gonna get the final word on this show. Um Mark, I'm gonna go to you and then I'll go. All right, here we go. Uh we are gonna walk out of the stall with this. Mark? Yes. You've watched this experience evolve? Yes. Specifically, Phyllis is voice, finding her voice. What's the lesson you're taking from Phyllis that you're gonna walk away with or that is reinforced about complexity? Take your take your goal, understand its complexity, be vulnerable, and do it. Never underestimate putting it out there so the world knows what's going on. The fact that you put it out that you're gonna sing, huge. Because what if you didn't? What if you stopped? What if you didn't follow through? But you put it out there, and maybe you did it in part for that accountability. I don't know. Uh I don't think you did. Uh, but you know, people say, Oh yeah, I put the challenge on Facebook, so that now I'm accountable. It's like, well, really, those people are not gonna know. Anyway, uh, yeah, you you put it out there, and that's that's that's there's no overthinking. You know, I'm I'm this, I'm gonna put it out into the universe. That's what you said. You said once, and I don't even know if it's on the show or not, you said I'm putting this out into the universe. And I know that you do that a lot, and I love that, right? Because that's a fearlessness with filled still with some level of fear, right? But um, it's uncompromising in you, and I see that. And so that's that's my big takeaway. Uh, don't overthink it, put it out there. Oh, is it my turn? Yes. Yes. I forget what I'm supposed to be answering, but I'm gonna say this. Um if I had to say like a few things that got me to this point, I will say give yourself some grace. Like if you have something that you want to do, or even every day, just give yourself some grace. But I will also say what somebody, and I told you this, um, that Leia said to me, in order for all of this to happen, the one that has to show up first is you. You have to show up for yourself. And then I would say what I've been telling myself my whole life. It's okay to be afraid, be afraid, and do it anyway. And I didn't do it, I chose the moment in time to do it because it was my way to say thank you. I really wanted to say thank you. But I don't, it's just what I said to you, leaving it undone, leaving something that's living inside of you that you think about and fantasize about all the time undone is probably the cruelest thing that you could do. And I think adds to the level of complexity because you're always twisting and turning and trying to make it something it's not. You put it in different ways. You pick a different career thinking you can get to it that way. My reality is that is not so. I have a lovely career and I'm very grateful for it, and I'm grateful that I can do it. And this thing, this storytelling through voice, through song, that that is mine. That's mine to do. That was always mine to do. And to leave that undone or left undone was, Mark, to your point, silencing me. And it silenced me in ways that I could not have anticipated, but ways that you also, you all saw show up as we started doing this show and in ways that others saw show up. And so I'm super, super clear on it now. And I would say to our listeners, give yourself grace. It may take you a lifetime. For heaven's sake, I'm 60. I've been thinking about this since I was 15, for heaven's sake. But I can tell you, Mark, I'm gonna say one and Alan and say one last thing. So, so just keep step forward, step forward. Um, no, I forgot what I was gonna say. Yes. Um coming through that on the other side, the one thing I'm certain about is I no longer have the fear, like it's just not there anymore, that I won't have enough air or that it won't be whatever it's going to be. That is completely gone. So the next performance will be a thousand times easier because I already did this one and it turned out just fine. Yeah. That is like five mic drops. I had to make up for Mark because he usually has a bunch. And you sometimes No, you just oh yeah, no, but you just obliterated this the field. And uh that brings us to this.

Closing Moments And Sign Off

45:39

As much as I I hate to do it, I I want to. We've reached the end of the show, and so I say it's time to go. This is the complexity of toilet paper. Nice. Everything complicated. One big baby equal, thank you.