Dopamine Hits & A Drug Called Opportunity: The Complexity of Notifications

Your phone buzzes and your brain jumps before you even think. That little ding is not just a sound, it is a promise: news, a sale, a message, a problem, a task, a tiny hit of relief. We dig into why that “promise of possibility” can hijack attention, inflate urgency, and turn a normal day into a constant loop of reacting and recovering. 

We talk about the real cost of interruptions and context switching, the explosion of ad and app alerts, and the weird moment when you swear you heard a notification that never happened. We also get into the social pressure underneath it all: the obligation to respond fast, the anxiety when someone does not, and how work culture trains us to treat every email or Teams ping like an emergency. Along the way we compare it to a time when being unreachable was normal and nobody assumed the worst. 

Then we bring it home with practical, human advice: turn off what you can, keep only what truly matters, set clear rules for after-hours, and actually tell people what to expect so nobody is left guessing. If you want a better relationship with smartphone notifications, better focus, and a calmer work-life balance, this one is for you. Subscribe, share with a friend who is always “on,” and leave a review with your best tip for taming notifications.

Transcript

Welcome To The Stall

SPEAKER_00 0:01

And I wish we could go back to a time when things weren't so complicated.

SPEAKER_05 0:06

Welcome to the complexity of toilet paper, the podcast that dives into the everyday moments where we overthink, hesitate, or just get still emoticing. Through honest conversations, unexpected insights, and a whole lot of humor, your hosts Phyllis Martin, Mark Pollock, and Adam Emerick are here to help you roll with it and make your life a little less complicated. One conversation at a time. Right, dude. The beauty of this is its simplicity. Speaking of which, it's time to enter the stall. Put the lid down, or not, depending. Get comfortable and roll with it. Oh, worry not, dear friend. It's really quite simple. This is the complexity of toilet paper. Well, hello. Uh oh, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_06 1:06

Hold on a second. Nope.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Should we go back to the 1-800? I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 1:11

No, I gotta I gotta I can't tell if it's a yeah, it's a text.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Oh.

SPEAKER_06 1:16

Uh. No, I think it's actually a LinkedIn. You know what? Oh my gosh. Hey, guess what I just did? I fooled you two because you didn't know what was coming. It took a minute. Yeah, it took a minute. Yeah, Mark's still wondering. He's still pondering. Either that or he's oh I get it. Come on. Oh, geez. You too, you too.

The Notification Fakeout Explained

SPEAKER_06 1:40

Hey everybody, let me let you in on the inside. Hold on, we're gonna go behind the scenes. Ready?

SPEAKER_03 1:49

We're now behind the scenes. See, this show is a show about notifications. And what Al just did, play by play for golf here, what Al just did was he did not prepare his teammates because we never prepare. Um and they thought he really had a notification, but in actuality it was to tee up the theme. Okay, now let's go back to the stall for the show. Did you get it, guys?

SPEAKER_01 2:19

That we got.

SPEAKER_06 2:21

Folks, I want you to know right now, this sh this podcast is free for you. Okay. Then that's because we do our own sound effects. We don't invest money in things that are gonna cost you.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

Or us. I or I no, there's a high cost to us. I guess there is a very high cost to us.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Do you think they think we're not prepared?

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Uh probably. I mean, I'm not prepared, so that probably works out pretty well.

SPEAKER_06 2:47

That's all right. We'll send you some texts and you'll get some notifications and you'll be fine.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

I actually I'm actually gonna leave my phone on ring. Normally I turn it off. So during the during the podcast, if I get notified of something, we'll hear it. We'll go off. We'll hear it. All right.

SPEAKER_06 3:01

Well, hey, for those of you that are giving us a partial focus, uh, whether your phone's on, your laptop's on, your computer, your iPad, whatever electronic device, whatever you're watching, listening to this podcast on, we welcome you to the complexity of toilet paper, hosted by three people who at one point didn't know what the hell they were doing and are still partially caught up in that conundrum. But that's all right. We'll fake it till we make it. I am Al Emmerich.

SPEAKER_02 3:31

I am, as always, Mark Pollock.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

And I am Phyllis Martin.

SPEAKER_06 3:37

Still Phyllis Martin. Still. And the trio uh that steps into the stall to have a ball so that you all can uh get a little uh uh simplification in your life, one conversation at a time. And I gotta tell you, Mark threw out a text of about 700 topics. Okay, it wasn't 700, but we were like, hey Mark, uh why don't you throw out some ideas from some new topic? Because he's always good for some ideas. Well, he showered us with this list of topics. And one of those topics was notification.

Notifications As Promises And Possibility

SPEAKER_06 4:12

I'm actually looking on my notification device here. That's right. Um, and so let me let me just clarify real quickly. When we're talking about notifications, we're not talking about the door uh bell ring or the e um postman showing up or FedEx. We're talking about the notifications that show up in your devices that are hmm, uh promises, dare we say, because that's what we're gonna kind of unpack today, right, Phyllis?

SPEAKER_07 4:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 4:41

When you did your judicious uh juicy research, what do you mean by promises? What does that mean?

SPEAKER_01 4:48

So what I meant by promises is uh, you know, every text uh is a promise of something. Every notification from an app is a promise to deliver a sale, some piece of news, some important message, a picture of a loved one, a message from a friend. But it's a promise to live to deliver, you fill in the blank.

SPEAKER_06 5:16

So it's not really the actual you don't view it as an actual ding or noise or whatever. It's really like what's the possibility of whatever is that.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

What is the possibility? Yep.

SPEAKER_06 5:29

Oh what is it? That's that's how I f that's how I view the stall. I go in there and there's only two options, but it's all the possibility.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

It's a lot of really great kinetic energy.

SPEAKER_06 5:48

Funny, so funny. Well, no, no, no, no, you see, no, joking aside, the crossroad here is if you if you were to listen back uh to past episodes when we um did the roll-up and we asked the question, like, what is your like a lot of what is your favorite thing to do in the stall uh that you can say in public. Um and and a lot of them are like, oh, I I answer emails, I check notifications, I do this, I do that. And I mean, nothing's more disconcerting, maybe, than doing the two, and you know, you get interrupted by a notification. So I just turned my phone off. I don't want to do notifications, but I I will. Anyway, that's another topic. Okay, I digress. Uh yeah, I know, Mark, don't even, you know, you know what we're talking about. Um, all

Why Dings Destroy Focus

SPEAKER_06 6:33

right, so here's some quick data points. We're not gonna drown you with this. You can search them and find them. Uh, but smartphone users receive dozens of notifications each day, often ranging between 40 to 100 plus. That's according to speakwise app and psychologypost.org. Um, brief interruptions, even the second, a millisecond of a ding can cost as much as a 30-minute delay in a return to effort. Now that was ridiculous. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

You know, it's actually changed when I looked at that statistic um a few years ago because I was um um kind of doing some research actually a few years ago about distractions. Um, it was 15 minutes. Uh so it's interesting. Now they're saying it's it's a 30-minute can be can be can can be up to 30 minutes. I mean, just even think about that.

SPEAKER_06 7:24

That's well, the the reason behind that, um, and I think it was psychology today. I saw that. I don't remember. Anyway, go search it up, you can find it. Um, and then call me out if I'm wrong. But but um I'm pretty sure I'm not. Uh it the reason is the volume of dings has not just increased from a number standpoint. The sources of the interruptions have increased. And it's not that the volume has increased, it's the user interaction. So you've got different generations now that never would have gone on TikTok three to five years ago and are now on it. They're not on Instagram, or they don't have an email and they now do. So a lot of that is also based on a generational use, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. People are being interrupted.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

You know what is interesting though, because I if we could just pause here for a second, I have noticed that in the past I would get notifications from friends who are texting me, or I would get Teams messages for work. But now there's like this proliferation of ads that I receive. So now I just get notifications on tons of tons of ads that um I don't even know how they got my phone number because I haven't bought their products, I haven't signed up, but it's been sold. And and now I I'm probably get close to 10 ad notifications per day.

SPEAKER_06 8:42

Interesting. See, that we didn't even talk about that, right? So there's the notification of an ad that's that's uh as you're doom scrolling or doing whatever that pops up. Oh, no, no, there's text, but there's also the notifications within your social media. Yeah, 100%. I didn't ask for that. Well, technically I did because I thought it or said it out loud on the phone picked it up. Anyway, um, by the way, curiosity, um, and I want to start with you first, Phyllis. Do you I know you probably hate the sounds, right? Like, do you have a do you have a notification? Like, do you just abhor notification sounds or do you actually like them?

SPEAKER_01 9:17

I don't I honestly like it's I I'm not gonna say I don't pay attention to notif notification sounds because I do, but I don't like spend a lot of time or any time for that matter. Like I don't pick a sound for each notification, it's like whatever it is. So I don't like I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 9:32

What about people calling you? Like like do you have a different ring for I don't, you know, your man love and no. What about you, Mark? I don't Do you have a Valerie ring or an Al ring or a Phyllis ring?

SPEAKER_02 9:42

I I don't have uh I don't have a ring for for each person, although I I think I probably should. But the notification piece, it's interesting that you bring that up. Um, I get so many in a day between Teams messages and my phone that I actually will hear them when I don't hear them.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

I believe that for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:59

Uh like I'll I'll feel like I've just heard something because I'm so used to hearing them. Um so it it it's weird how your brain plays um those games with you.

SPEAKER_06 10:09

If you've ever done this, please message us uh um and let us know. All right. Um I'm gonna say a bad word, here we go. I want to set an alert that says, are you fucking kidding me?

SPEAKER_02 10:25

It's really tough when you're in a work environment and then all of a sudden that one goes off and you send it to your boss or your employees, and like, oh no.

SPEAKER_06 10:36

So uh let's just let's just sick stick the knife in it um and start this thing.

Were We Happier Before Pings

SPEAKER_06 10:43

Do you think people were happier before notifications or were they just like living in the dark? I mean, is are they good for us, bad for us? What is it? They're awful for us. Okay, well let's let's I ask two questions. You take um well Phyllis asked two questions. Were they happier before notifications? Now, again, in your opinion, were you happier? And do you think people are happier before notifications or after?

SPEAKER_02 11:08

I I was com I I'll go. I I was completely happier before notifications. Um I I they I find them wildly distracting. Um it it absolutely kills productivity. Um and you know, I don't know how they built the pyramids without teams and 15 meetings, uh, but they seem to have done it. And so I I I would love to go back to a day where not, you know, I so uh, you know, we all we all have full-time jobs and and um it's it's interesting because these notifications uh you talk about distraction. I'm having a a one-on-one today um with one of my associates, and you know, we're we're crafting this really big plan, and in the background, I have my phone giving me notifications, I have teams giving me notifications, I have phone calls. So it's not just a distraction, it's it's the it's the culmination of multiple distractions all at once. And I think that's where the complexity of notifications comes in, because it's not oh Valerie sent me a text and I should write back to her. It's it's 400 people have sent me a text. And then and then if you're on group text and you get group notifications and they're all talking to each other. So for me, yes, I was I was less distracted, more focused, less stressed when I was not notified for every little thing.

SPEAKER_06 12:43

Bill?

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Yes, yes, yes. Um That says it all, ladies and gentlemen. It's it's like it cuts both ways because there are the notifications, Mark just aptly, you've so aptly described, and I told you both as we were, you know, somewhat preparing, thinking about, should I say, this show. I use the example that I have my email notifications completely turned off. I can't even see um on the app like the number of emails coming in because it just, Mark, to your point, it's it's it creates a false sense of urgency for me. Now it has taken me years to come make peace with that, that like every email is not urgent, every team's ding-dong spruing is I like that word, spraying. Um, is not spraying, um, is not necessarily urgent. So I think, you know, from that perspective, I just turned it off. I I'm responsible, I'll I'll look. And also somebody will call me if they, if there's like real heartburn or something, you know, something that needs my immediate, immediate attention. But then I'm thinking too about um, you know, if like one of you has some great news and you send me a text, that would be a happy thing to my day. That notification would be a happy notification and perhaps like a much-needed um piece of yumminess to my day, like to break me out of just kind of the grind sometimes that you get into work. And so this whole um topic got me thinking again, and this seems to be like a central theme for me. I think sometimes it's what we choose to do with it. It's hard as humans, maybe not all humans, this human, to not get caught up in the trend is not the right word, but like the thing of the moment, especially in business, right? Like it's hard to swim upstream. Like when I say to people I don't have my notifications turned on for email, most people are like, are you kidding me? Like, what's happening? Like you, you don't, I also don't have like a iWatch or whatever it is, Apple Watch, whatever. So, you know, while everybody's looking at their wrist while we're talking, I don't, I don't have that. Um so I feel like it cuts both ways. Is the notification bad, or is our usage of the notifications the thing that, right? Like, and I don't I don't have an answer to that because I think it probably varies for people. But Mark, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go with like heavily in the mark camp, which is it is all of those notifications are exhausting, anxiety producing, raises your um cortisol level, your stress, like you're constantly on, you're constantly bouncing, and then and then for at least for me, for my ability to concentrate on one thing, it's a complete distraction. Like it it can throw me off in 102 different directions, even like my Nordstrom notification, because then I gotta go take a look for a minute, see what's happening. Is something on sale?

SPEAKER_02 15:55

And and I find that fascinating because when I think of I I think of notifications, you know, we're we're talking about text message or or these other things. Um and you mentioned the Apple Watch, it made me think of this. So I also get notifications, as we talked in a previous episode. Um, Harrison, my son, has uh type one diabetes, so I have notifications if he drops low or goes high. So I get those notifications. Um I have friends who have Apple watches and they have the notifications if they're, you know, uh exercising and if their heart rate goes up. And it I I just Time to stand. Like it's yeah, it's time to stand, it's time to walk, it's time to sit, you know, it's time to, you know, uh do whatever. It's it's just fascinating to me how much we're quote unquote notified a promise to go do something or respond to something, or we feel obligated to respond to something because someone wrote to us, um, and and they're really important in our life, so we need to take the time to you know, so there's just there's a lot of stress that goes with this obligation of you were notified. So

Obligation Versus Urgency At Work

SPEAKER_02 16:59

right, you pause right there.

SPEAKER_06 17:00

The word obligation, okay? That is I I I think that is the that is the crux of the complexity. Yeah. Right. Uh because let me take you back to and and this is so incredible that this actually reaches back to our previous episode on um brand and AI. Yep. And go with me here. This is the tan, it's not not a tangent. It's the conversation of it is it's it's the user and what they do with it. So let's go back. 1971, uh, and I'm quoting this directly out of study.com. Uh a basic chat function was implemented to allow government officials to log into a central computer and exchange typewritten messages during emergencies. So that's 1971. In the 1980s, early public chat software, like uh there was something called Talk, which was an academic software, was available so that researchers could actually uh um collaborate with other researchers um on a network and they could literally chat. That okay. Now the late 90s, you may remember this. ICQ was launched in 96, and A O L I M Instant Messenger launched in 1997. Okay. And when that started to proliferate, the origins began to be used as mark from a marketing standpoint. And there's the tangent. Ting ting ting.

SPEAKER_02 18:28

I can't believe you memorized all those dates though.

SPEAKER_03 18:29

That's oh yeah, no, I never use the internet at all. I hate it, it's think it's stupid. Yeah, I just remember it.

SPEAKER_06 18:34

I I I emed myself the uh the data. Anyway, so so look at that proliferation of hey, here's a functional use that's very sli simple and clean. We're still using phones to call each other. Um then it it it's like it moved to the academic world, and now again, from a marketing standpoint, from a branding standpoint, from a sales standpoint, it proliferated into a tool that is now now everywhere. And the obligation that you're talking about, Mark, I think where the confusion and complexity gets in is what's an obligation and what's urgent. And now we have no lines to define what is really urgent. Because the truth is, if I have good news for you, Phyllis, it's not urgent. Right. It it might be ex it might feel like, oh God, I can't wait to tell her. Um but it's not urgent. It's not and now urgency is accelerated in a in a in a text through, hey, if it's really urgent, 911 me. That's I don't know if that's you guys, but I do that.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

It it really like again, this is like a lesson I learned late, late, later in life, like recently within the past um, I would say arguably three to five years. I think what's happened, especially with everything you've said, Mark, email and teams, like a million ways to get at somebody in the workplace. So everything can be deemed. Everything is the question is, is everything urgent? What is the expectation? And I think you have to set that for your own teams or your own organizations about what is really urgent. But what's happened is I think we've interpreted everything as urgent. I sent you the email, so you have it. It's sitting somewhere, and do something with it. But I don't know that that's really what people expect. And we've got to do a good job. I say I have to do a good job of discerning what are my own boundaries, what do I want the boundaries for my team to be, and what are my own boundaries? Like what is what is good etiquette and what is like for work, like what is good etiquette? The truth is, I'm not gonna get to everybody's, I'm not gonna respond to everybody the same day the email comes in. But my goal is that within 24 hours, I will have responded to you, even if it is to say, I see it and I need to think more about it, and I'm going to get back with you. But not every single email or Teams message that comes in can be urgent. We don't, we are not, first of all, they're not. And second of all, we're human beings and there are only so many hours in the day. I mean, this is why people say, like, now everybody can get to you for years on your phone. Like, cause you, the email was coming in, the email was coming in. Keep your phone, keep your phone, respond to the email, respond to the email. No, we're people, we're human beings. We have work life and we have life life.

SPEAKER_06 21:28

All right, so let me ask you about this. Does does did do you think because you're talking about work and I know you're talking about personal life, but you're we're so far we've mainly been talking more about the work world. Do you think, regardless of what the work policies are? Because I know that there's some the company sets the tone for that culture of communication, right? Um do you think that that has led bled led and bled to the way we respond in our personal lives? Because Because you're you're we s we spend most of our time at work in the sense of like intensely at work, right? Uh technically we're no, we spend more time our our by ourselves. But communications tend to be so dominant in work. So do you think that work bleeds that pace bleeds into your personal life, or do you think the personal people are able to kind of like draw the line?

SPEAKER_01 22:25

I would hope that people I I think that's an individual choice, and I hope that people draw the line where they think they do what is they do what is best for them. And I hope in their personal life they're have family and friends who understand.

SPEAKER_06 22:40

But do you think it really happens though? Like think about your your brain is programmed to be. I'm not talking about there's choice, but then there's also programming. And if you're at work and you're programmed eight hours, ten hours a day through meetings and all those things, do you think that in your experience that carries over and people feel compelled almost subconsciously to then be responsive to every text on their personal time?

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Probably. I mean, there's probably some like bleed over into things. And but it goes back to how we started the show because every text is a promise, a possibility.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

And and we don't today, um, this is a huge generalization, uh, and I I I hope we get some listener comments on this. We don't lay out expectations, right? I I when I I I've never said hey, don't you know, don't these are my boundaries, these are my expectations, these is you know, and and let me set for you the expectations I I have in responding, even. Um I'll give you an example, a recent example, and and and look, you know, it it it it was about this show. I was out of town last week, something needed to be done. I was I actually had forgotten, so I was glad I got the notification. But you guys had had texted me three or four times about the graphic. I was engaged in what I was doing, but it was urgent for you to get a hold of me. I didn't even have my phone, or if I had my phone, it wasn't working in the building I was in because it wasn't getting the messages. Um but but when I came out, I had three or four messages like Mark, where are you? We're worried about you, what are you doing? Why aren't you responding? So your expectation was that I was going to respond quickly. I wasn't in a place that even got those notifications. But you had anxiety about it, you were nervous about my health and my well-being. Not not anything bad. I'm I'm not condemning.

SPEAKER_06 24:45

Because you're usually responsive at a different pace.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

But then that means if I'm not that urgent, I'm not doing those things, then all of a sudden something must be wrong with Mark.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

Bingo.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

And and and there it is, which caused you stress, which then made me feel bad because I'm like, oh crap, I was supposed to do something. So it's an interesting, it's an interesting conundrum we put ourselves in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Do you know what I'm seeing though? I think maybe like subconsciously in response, or maybe on purpose in response. I'm seeing more and more people have their um, it's like their messages are silenced. So you get the message that says somebody has their phone on silence or it's being delivered softly.

SPEAKER_07 25:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

And do you want to like like send it anyway so they'll like get a get some level of notification, notification, which I think is like a really human response to I need to set some boundaries on this. And and Mark, I think you're exactly right. Like when I think about um, like I do it myself. If um for some reason, you know, I've texted Tim something absolutely ridiculous that he does not need to respond to during the day, but something just thought was funny, some picture or something stupid, whatever. Um, or my favorite, you know, cherries are on sale or something like that. But then, you know, like a couple hours go by and I'm home and he's not home yet. My mind like starts to wander. Did he get in a car accident and nobody told me? Did he have a heart attack and the heart hospital hasn't called? But then we think about like when Tim and I talk about this all the time, just I like he tells me, like, he uses this story all the time. When he was um, I think maybe a freshman or sophomore in college, doesn't matter. He took a trip to Russia, like with like a cohort of his college friends and a professor. No cell phones, no nothing. He got on a plane in New York and did not communicate with his parents or family for 15 days. Nothing. And that was normal. Like that was normal. There was no expectation. Do you see what I'm saying? Like, because you were much more detached, and then that detached is not the right word, but like so much more that you didn't worry, like because you didn't know you should.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

Like, well, I I heck, even like take that even smaller. When I was a when I was a kid, right? Um I wasn't on weekends allowed to be home. Like if it was nice out with parents, like go outside and play. Nobody knew where we were. And so no, for hours. We came back at dusk.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

Yes, same.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

All day, gone. Yes, no cell phone, no tracking, no nothing.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

And sometimes we've got yeah, sometimes we came home all bloodied up. Like we fell, scraped our, you know, blood.

SPEAKER_02 27:27

Yeah, we got in a fight with our Yeah, whatever. Got in a fight with our friends, whatever, whatever. Yeah. Uh absolutely. And we used to drive, there's a big road here in in Jacksonville called San Jose Boulevard. I remember riding my bike down San Jose Boulevard. You know, I can't even imagine my kids riding their bike down San Jose Boulevard. I can't even imagine riding my bike now down San Jose Boulevard. And um, you know, you you think about all this stuff, and now and now I've got I've got live 360 on my phone. I know where my kids are, I know Harrison's blood sugar, I I all of it. Like I'm notified about everything.

SPEAKER_06 28:04

Life live, is it life or live 360?

unknown 28:08

Whatever.

SPEAKER_06 28:08

I don't know. Whatever.

SPEAKER_02 28:09

Not a sponsor, so I don't care.

SPEAKER_06 28:11

So um we have well, Mark, that means you don't care about anybody because we don't have a sponsor yet.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

Uh

Remember When Nobody Could Reach You

SPEAKER_02 28:19

I don't. So he doesn't have to care. But if you want to sponsor us, but if you want to sponsor us, I will care about you deeply.

SPEAKER_06 28:24

Screw it. Let's just ask right now. We would like a sponsor. If you would like to sponsor us and you would like to sponsor us, please let us know. Notify us. Notify us. Text us.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Could you send us a notification?

SPEAKER_06 28:38

Send us the Facebook message. I am us. And we'll put you, uh, we'll allow you to use live 360 on all three of us. Yeah. We'll name the studio after you. Um no, uh, whatever. Life for Live 360, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

They're not going to sponsor us now. Go away.

SPEAKER_06 28:56

But they want us to get their name right, they sure the hell will. Yeah. If we can't get a toilet paper or a bowl sponsor or something, we're we're we're we're really in trouble. Anyway, so like that's a I didn't even think about that till you to reel something. What? Oh God. Well, this is the space. This is the space. We're in the stall. Hey, Phyllis, I want to remind you that it's just us.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

Okay, great. As long as it's just us and nobody else is listening. While we have been talking, yeah. While we've been talking talking, my phone is like perched, like right over here. You all people who are listening can't see it. Distress me, it's right over here.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

And every time I don't even have, it's not even a sound, it's a vibration. I'm like, oh, Macy's is having a sale. Ooh, Quince is having a sale. Because I can see it out of the corner of my mind. And I'm like, oh, so noted. I'll do some some shopping later. At least look at it. It's just cracking me up.

SPEAKER_06 29:54

Yeah. So let's take it to our own lives. Forget the complexity for just a moment. Mark, what are the notifications? What are the possibilities that you most respond to in a positive way? We're not talking about the negative stuff. You know, your son texts you about God forbid low blood sugar. So like what are the what are the texts or the or the notifications in general that you get excited about? Because I know I have a few, but I'm just curious.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

Um, I I I think some of the my the only ones I really get excited about, um, you know, uh likely from Valerie, the kids, you guys.

SPEAKER_06 30:38

Let me ask it a different way. What are the conditions or or what are the opportunities, the possibilities that excite you that come through a notification? Like you're looking for a job or you're looking for this or you're waiting on a whatever.

SPEAKER_02 30:56

That's a really tough question. Uh honestly. I I I think unless it's a personal I don't know how to bucketize that, quite honestly. Because I I get so many, you know, you you brought up the word Pavlo's dog. Like I get so many notifications. It I don't know how to discern good from bad, other than, oh, Valerie wants to know what we're doing for dinner, or the kid, you know, Harrison's coming up from Gainesville and he's gonna hang out, or Michaela wants to hang out. Like, besides that, uh everything is just a response. I, you know, the thing beeps.

SPEAKER_06 31:33

But don't you have an emotional like okay, I'll give you the example. Maybe this will help. And this isn't a right or wrong. It's just so I remember when I was job seeking, you're always wrong. I'm right. Um when I was job seeking, I remember that, or when I've when I've put out a bid for keynote speaking, um, you're waiting to hear that response. And that was exciting. Now, sometimes it was also distracting and disconcerting, but I get excited about that. Um I remember once, um But that's rare, right? Like you're not always looking for a job. This this isn't I'm just I know. I'm just the question was what are the conditions or what are the opportunities that when it comes to a notification, you get excited about? Uh for me it was tickets. I was part of a ticket lottery, I remember, and I've done that a couple of times. And that becomes like, oh, cool. But but the point is that like I would like, oh, I'd wait for that notification because that was exciting. Those so those are the things I'm talking about. Where are the notifications and possibilities exciting?

SPEAKER_01 32:32

I have one that I get excited about. I get excited when I'm traveling and I get a notification from the airline that the plane is departing on time.

SPEAKER_02 32:41

Okay. Oh, yeah, that's a good one. How about that? That is a good one. I like that one. That's a that's a that's a positive one. Although I always conversely I conversely when I see something from Delta, I'm like, Me too. My plate. I hope it's on time. Right. Um, but yeah, then you open and you're like, oh yay, it's actually landing 15 minutes early.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

Or if my package is going to be delivered today from one of the various stores that I might have shopped at, that's such an exciting.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

That is exciting.

SPEAKER_06 33:08

Now the IV is starting to drip. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

Yeah, yeah, I get that. I get that.

SPEAKER_06 33:13

What else? I think I think you get excited about more than you realize. You just don't want to admit it. Or you just don't recognize it. It's exciting.

SPEAKER_02 33:22

You know, uh, you know, since since it's only the three of us and I can talk honestly, I I think for me, I am at a point in in life where I am honestly overwhelmed by um notifications.

When The Noise Turns Into Screech

SPEAKER_02 33:40

By all of it. By information, by the you know, um I I I I've got a a list of things that I need to get done at work. I've got a list of things that I need to get done at home, I've got a list of people that I need to make sure that I stay in touch with, I have a a list of just uh personal obligations, professional obligations, and you combine all of that with then other stuff that comes into that with what we're talking about. I I think I have a tough time getting super excited um because it's just so much. And I don't know that I have been built like I take in a lot, but then you combine that a lot with doom scrolling and the notifications in there, or the advertisements in there, or the needs in there, or the emotional pulls in that area, the distraction, which means that uh, you know, maybe I didn't get something done that I needed to get done, and now I've got to work late to make sure that I get it done. So I I know this is about notifications, but when you started off saying it's a 30-minute delay getting that notification, there is downstream ramifications of that that is complex. It is hard. And and that complexity and that notification, which drives me away from the things that I should be doing, um, causes a level of stress and overwhelmness that is very difficult for me to recover from. So good news, exciting news, the package is there. Yeah, that's fun. But I I don't even necessarily have the space to enjoy it because it there's just so much. It's it's it's beyond white noise. It's it's almost it's almost screech. Uh it's it's painful. Um and so that's why I'm having a tough time answering that. Sure. Do I love that my flight's on time or the Amazon package is gonna be here, whatever? Sure. Do I love when the you know people dear to me reach out? Sure. But it's it's it is also, and this is tough to say, part of the noise.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

I get it.

SPEAKER_06 35:49

Before I ask this, Phil, do you have a comment?

SPEAKER_01 35:51

No.

SPEAKER_06 35:52

All right, so I'm gonna say something and it's completely non-judgmental, um, but it is, I think, a realistic question. No, it's uh it is a realistic question. Uh you're right. It's the complexity of toilet paper, and I'm I'm complexifying. Um you realize that all of this is a choice. Uh to some extent, sure. It it is a at work, you either if you work is is the the differential. Um so let's just say this two caveats. Work is the the culture of work electronically is dictated by your culture at work, and and that is sometimes removing choice. However, you do have a choice how to respond to that emotionally, you have a choice how you interact with it. The second choice is your children text you and you have to respond, but also part of that is a choice in the culture you set with your family. So let's just pull those aside for a second, right? Okay. Um do you agree that how we respond to that noise and how we address notifications for the majority squarely rests within our choice and how to interact.

SPEAKER_02 37:12

It does, but the impact of that choice could be out of our hands.

SPEAKER_06 37:18

There's always gonna be that, but at the end of the day, it is still a choice. Of course.

SPEAKER_02 37:23

When I turn it again, you've got to weigh the impact of that choice. I could say that I am not gonna respond to your texts, regardless of what it is, until the end of the day. So I am turning my phone off in my work hours. Yep. That may impact our relationship.

SPEAKER_06 37:38

But you still made the choice and you set that tone. That's true. And you are now in control of that chaos.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

Yes. So I'll chime in and I say I think it's oh sorry. Yes. Um I think some of it is how we choose. So two things. How we choose to manage like our expectations and the expectations of others. And again, I fully admit this, it's taken me a long time to get here. So there there are nights, not every night, when, and again, I do not have children. So like putting that out there, but that my phone is I am separated from my phone. At six o'clock or seven o'clock, it sits in a different room and all sound is off. And for me, that's like the right thing to do, hard stop, period. But then I think, Mark, you said something really early in the show that's really sitting with me, which is you said like we never set, like we so seldom set expectations. And so that's really weighing with me, like in a good way. So, you know, like an in addition to my phone being away from me, I could have conversations with people I care about the most, right? Or even my work people to say, on this and this night, I'm gonna put my phone down from like six to eight, like something so people are in the know so that people's feelings aren't getting hurt. They're not taking things the wrong way. But it sets like such a good, to me, it's like such an like a such a lovely gift to give to yourself and to people in your life, especially when you're feeling so overwhelmed. And I'll just speak for myself. Part of the reason that phone and I separate is that I was like, I was like shaking, I was on so much. There was no getting away from it. And it did become like Pavlov's dog because I was nervous if I heard the, you know, ting tang of stuff coming in. And I was nervous if I didn't. Like I had to go through the withdrawal of phone separation, for lack of a different way to say it, because my mind got very like my mind is in the way that we live now. And it took it take, and there are days when it's there are days when I have to say, stop, put it down, walk away, separate yourself for even like 20 minutes. It's it is addictive. I think there's an addictive like nature to it.

SPEAKER_06 39:59

Oh, no, there's no studies on it. It is, yeah. Yeah. And and remember, remember too, Phyllis, you just you just brought up a whole other aspect that we don't consider. And that is there is well, we've been talking about it, but you specifically hit the nail on the head. And that is our emotional and mental health. Okay? There is they are inexplicably connected, if that's the right use of that word, um, because as a type one diabetic, I have no problem telling a complete stranger who's my waiter or waitress, hey, d do you have this or that, or can can you please look out for this or that? Because I'm a type one diabetic. Okay. There should be no reason that we can't communicate to our friends, and I do, you know, um uh not all the time, but I tell Dylan, you know, my son, like, hey son, now he's gonna ring through anyway. But I'll be like, hey, I'm I'm I'm doing the podcast, or hey, I'm doing this, so don't text, blah, blah, blah, blah. Um, but I do, I try to communicate, um, and I turn my phone off during the day. I make some of those choices, but I do it because it's part of my operational functionality, but it's also part of my mental health. And I can tell you, when I did a three-day getaway weekend recently in a staycation, and I shut that damn phone down, I said the same thing that all of us say. It felt so good. But why the fark do we need to go ahead and make that such a conscious effort as if it's like, I've turned my phone off, I just cut an arm off. It's that, it's like it's it's funny that you say that.

SPEAKER_02 41:37

I used to go on uh vacation years ago when you would go on a cruise and your phone turned into a brick because a lot of the cruises you'd had to pay really expensive fees for Wi-Fi.

SPEAKER_06 41:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:47

That I was so engaged in the moment. And I found myself on a recent cruise um where uh Wi-Fi was free or whatever. I I don't remember, but I had it. Um, I had the same distractions. I was checking work emails, I was texting people, I was looking on Facebook. Um and so I was completely out of the moment. So it's interesting too, these notifications when you're you were in those three days. You were present for the people who were there versus had you had your phone and these notifications, not only you take 30 minutes to get back into it, but you've totally disconnected from the people who are right in front of you.

SPEAKER_06 42:31

It's the opportunity cost, man. Yeah.

A Simple Plan To Take Control

SPEAKER_06 42:34

All right, so let's bring this puppy uh semi home if we can. Um because once again, I don't think there's ever gonna be a show where we just go, oh, yeah, well, that was it. We we talked that we saw that. Yep. Um based on your experiences, the moment, what we've talked about, like if you were gonna give advice to somebody who came to you and said, All right, I want a I want a better relationship with my notifications. What's your advice? What are your tips? They'll call it three tips or whatever. One tip, three tips, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

I know this sounds like a horrible thing, like such an easy thing to say, but the truth is turn them off. Test it. Turn them off for a day. Turn them off.

SPEAKER_06 43:25

All right, well take it take it a step further. Is it is it is it is that like step one and then build like a plan around that to say these are the times, or is it like I think that's right.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

Like you gotta get on, you gotta you gotta start somewhere. You don't have to let the saying, don't let perfection be the enemy of good. So start somewhere, turn one off. And tell people. Like tell people that you if it's if it's work related, right? If it's after five or six and it's work related, I'm turning, I'm turning my notifications off. If it's urgent, call. Call me. Like if you need that kind of cushion.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

I would take it I would take it a step before that. I would say sit down with yourself and say self. Self. What what about notifications has been good? What has it been what's been bad? Yeah. And write it down. And then understand what I I think what a perfect scenario would look like. What what you know if I still need to get notifications, what are, you know, like we've talked about, I don't probably need the BOGO from rack room shoes and gooder sunglasses popping up on my phone all day. So what can I delete or what could I block? Um and then what are the most important or who are the most important? And can I silence all the others outside of that? Like I'm never turning off Harrison's notifications. I I I I can't, right? I'm I'm I've I'm that's not one I'm willing to do. But I can turn off I can say, hey, after seven, I'm not I'm not responding to work stuff anymore. Like that, I'm gonna turn those notifications off and I'll I'll get back that seven in the next morning. Yeah and that's okay. That's okay. Um so I I think I think setting writing it down and then setting some rules for yourself and then and then the the third or fourth thing, whatever it is, is uh communicating your plan to others and those nearest and dearest to you.

SPEAKER_06 45:30

Well done. The only thing I would add to that is that you have to you have to revisit it. It's not it's because it's it's gonna be circumstantial. Yeah. Like Mark, you know, um your son's in college. At 30, you still gonna be doing that, taking that? 40? You might, but you gotta you gotta revisit that, right?

SPEAKER_02 45:50

Because I'll be close to 80, so I won't know if it's my medical notifications or his. So um, yeah. But good point.

SPEAKER_06 45:58

Um hey, we'll still be doing the podcast, and we might we might have a sponsor by that.

SPEAKER_01 46:03

So ugly.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

Yeah. This show brought to you by Adult Diapers.

SPEAKER_06 46:10

Oh shit, what were we talking about? Uh, but no, I think that Mark nailed it and and Phyllis, you brought that beauty in there. I just think it's a matter of you have to revisit it. But I and I'm in in the rare form, I'm gonna consolidate um what you said into ask yourself where do I want to focus my attention? That's the question, I think, is because Phyllis, it's about possibility. The possibility requires attention, so the possibility has to be prioritized by what you focus your attention on. And if you take out the fact that, okay, there's work, you can still do this. It's the question still applies. Where do I want to focus my attention? Where do I need to focus my attention? At play, my buddies, my social circle, where do I want to, and where do I need to?

SPEAKER_07 47:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 47:02

And if and I think if you revisit that based on what Mark said, and you build that kind of like stale stair step, um, that could be some good advice. We hope that's helped you. Um tips from the stall.

Speed Round And Final Roll Up

SPEAKER_02 47:19

Um Hey, sign up for notifications so you know when the next episode drops.

SPEAKER_06 47:24

All right. Hey, let's close with this question. You ready? All right. This is the speed round. Oh, you know what? Let's do it. I'm not even gonna play the sounder because it we don't we don't have it's gonna be so fast. We're gonna do the roll-up sound free. Here you go. Do you respond to notifications in the toilette, Phyllis? No, Mark. Mark. Yes, okay. I do too. There you go. I'm just curious. All right. All right, friends. So just know if Mark and I text you back, we might be potty time.

SPEAKER_02 47:57

It's probably when I'm responding to you, so congratulations.

SPEAKER_04 48:03

This is the complexity of toilet paper. Did you say toilet paper?